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Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath

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Waterrock	Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath		Lead	[-]
Posts: 1163 09/07/05 22:44:24	Tags : None Q: Jesus teaches in Matthew 12:3-8 that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day. Since it is lawful to do good every day, and since its not lawful to do evil on any day, this effectively treats the sabbath-day like any other day. But the commandment to rest on the Sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments! Shouldnt the Sabbath-rest be required? A: The question, Should Christians keep the Sabbath? has been written about a lot. One example of the approach taken by non-Sabbatarians be read at www.letusreason.org/7thAd9.htm . To me, the early churchs non-enforcement of the Sabbath-law is one of the clearest indications that Jesus taught, and that the apostles understood, that Jesus was leading His followers into a new dispensation. Christians were, and are, free to observe the Sabbath rest-regulations if they want to, but we are not required to; nor should we obligate other Christians to rest on Saturdays. So what happened to the Sabbath-law? The same thing that happened to the rest of the Law (including the rest of the Ten Commandments): it was fulfilled in Christ. Our Sabbath-rest is now in Christ, as we work in this life as His body and anticipate our rest with Him in the Sabbath of the heavenly Promised Land. Many of the commandments in the Law are repeated and expanded upon in the covenant of grace (as I mention when explaining Matthew 5:17-18), but there is no re-affirmation of the command to abstain from work every Saturday. Colossians 2:16-17 is an important passage about this. Yours in Christ, Waterrock
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Hebrews 5 12	Do good on the sabbath	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1 01/30/06 00:32:00	Water, what does this mean? Matthew 5:17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. which is the law that will not pass away until it is finished?
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Rev Etherman	Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 395 02/28/06 01:21:03	Something I never quite understood: What does it mean that Jesus fulfilled the Law? If God wanted us to be Atheists we'd be born that way.
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Yark Hutprancer	Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3749 02/28/06 07:09:55	It means that Christians get to ignore embarrassing Old Testament rules in favor of rules that tend toward today's more humane morality systems. It's a means to convince simple people to replace their old, stale religion with a new, exciting one. "If I were God, and I made myself into a regular ol' person, I would have written down the stuff I said myself. I would have had people there with me taking notes. I wouldn't rely on people from the generation after my death to get the story right." - i would be an astronaut on the SAB Message Board
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murfdog19	Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2 04/22/06 15:50:32	You can't fool me! Jesus said the law was valid until all things are fulfilled. This would include the events of Revelation and the end of the world. Therefore, all Christians who have worked during Sabbath should be stoned to death. Such is the will of God, right!!
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lajekahr	..............ugh	#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 9 12/17/07 15:23:36	For the first time since I've been reading your responses, Waterrock, I not only disagree, but I fully disagree. This statement has created such horrible tensions in Christendom. The Athiests are correct. Jesus did say that and he meant it. The Law has not passed away. The legalistic slavery to it has. The covenant of the Messiah is the re-newed covenant not a "brand new" covenant. The Sabbath still holds. The simple answer for this question is that Jesus was pointing out that God had always intended for good works to be more important than "resting" on the Sabbath. The teachers of the time had turned a simple day of rest into a legalistic observances rules that made the day lose its value. Such as you noted with the showbread question before. Also to murfdog19, you are correct, however, the death penalty has already been paid by Jesus, but just because the penalty has been paid does not mean we should continue to sin. Shalom!
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jeff	Re: ..............ugh	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2364 12/17/07 19:07:47	*Quote:* The simple answer for this question is that Jesus was pointing out that God had always intended for good works to be more important than "resting" on the Sabbath. i don't think that the issue is 'good' works, but rather work of any kind. *Quote:* The teachers of the time had turned a simple day of rest into a legalistic observances rules that made the day lose its value. how is it 'legalistic' to enforce not working on the sabbath, when the old testament says we are not to work on the sabbath many times? is it legalistic to insist you shouldn't murder someone, if this is exactly what the OT says? *Quote:* Also to murfdog19, you are correct, however, the death penalty has already been paid by Jesus, but just because the penalty has been paid does not mean we should continue to sin. i'm confused. if we should not continue to sin, why should we work on the sabbath (which is a sin)?
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lajekahr	Sabbath made for man! Not the other way around	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 9 12/18/07 08:08:09	*Quote:* i don't think that the issue is 'good' works, but rather work of any kind. The issue is very much about good works. Below is quote from OP. *Quote:* Jesus teaches in Matthew 12:3-8 that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day. *Quote:* how is it 'legalistic' to enforce not working on the sabbath, when the old testament says we are not to work on the sabbath many times? is it legalistic to insist you shouldn't murder someone, if this is exactly what the OT says? The issue is a matter of priorities. As Jesus also teaches and shows, the Sabbath was never intended to enslave the man but to help man, to give him a day of rest. In the ancient times, Jews were considered lazy for taking a "holiday" once a week. God made this day to help us not get burnt out. Imagine if you didn't get a 'weekend' off and had to wait for major holidays to get time off? Yoik! Also see some other verses: Matthew 12:11 "What man is there among you who has a sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 "How much more valuable then is a man than a sheep! So then, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath." Mark 2:27 "27 Jesus said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." I personally believe the reason Jesus took long trips and healed people on the Sabbath was specifically challenge this notion that had been created that it was a day of do nothing but pray and read the Bible. It was to be a "restful" day. A day to get away from the "daily grind". In other words, the legalism was to enslave people to the Sabbath and force them to do nothing, when the spirit of the Sabbath was to rest and recover from 6 days of hard labor and not be worried about things. *Quote:* i'm confused. if we should not continue to sin, why should we work on the sabbath (which is a sin)? We shouldn't work on the Sabbath, but the question here is really what constitutes work. The teachers of the time had so obssessed with this that they had a rigid set of rules some of which are still in use to this day amongst the orthodox. For example, they limited the distance you could travel because walking/riding was work. They had a count of how many and what kind of sticks a man could pick up on the Sabbath and still be considered "not working". The point Jesus is making is that God was being nice giving 1 out of every 7 days off, not trying to force them to stay home and be boarded and hungry.
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Keith and Company	Sabbath made by god, for god, clearly stated.	#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3733 12/18/07 08:37:32	*Quote:* The teachers of the time had so obssessed with this that they had a rigid set of rules some of which are still in use to this day amongst the orthodox. THe problem is not the legalism, th eproblem was the divine stricture against behaviors that COULD GET YOU KILLED. God, or God's Ire, or a desire to avoid pissing God off, was the source of such rules as keepng Kosher. Soon after Moses got the rules for the orthodoxy, he was ordered to put a man to death for gathering sticks. I don't think that it was a later development that nothing, no-how, that resembled work was to be done on the Sabbath. GOD was the one obssessed with His Day and the disposition of one's time during it. The Jews traditionally went overboard on observing the rules, but that was a margin for error for their protection. At a time when bread was about all the people had to eat, bakers could be put to death for stiffing their customers and put 13 rolls in a dozen to avoid accidentally breaking the law. In the same way, Jews avoid seething a kid in its mother's milk by completely separating meat and dairy. If gathering wood for a fire on the Sabbath could get you stoned, they did away with all cooking on that day, thus no need for a cookfire. Sabbath is entirely set aside for the creator and sponsor of the day, not man. At least in the OT.
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jeff	Re: Sabbath made for man! Not the other way around	#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2364 12/18/07 17:02:33	*Quote:* The issue is very much about good works. Below is quote from OP. keep going.. *Quote:* The question, Should Christians keep the Sabbath? has been written about a lot. as WR points out, it is never lawful to do un-good works, so the issue is 'should christians keep the sabbath' *Quote:* The issue is a matter of priorities. As Jesus also teaches and shows, the Sabbath was never intended to enslave the man but to help man, to give him a day of rest. then jesus might want to reread the OT. ex. 20:11 *Quote:* For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. the sabbath wasn't a holiday, it was a hallowed day of devotion to god. *Quote:* In other words, the legalism was to enslave people to the Sabbath and force them to do nothing, when the spirit of the Sabbath was to rest and recover from 6 days of hard labor and not be worried about things. you might want to reread the OT as well. ex. 31:13-17 *Quote:* Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you. Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant. It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. ex: 35:12 *Quote:* Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. the death penalty for not observing a holiday? whew! *Quote:* I personally believe the reason Jesus took long trips and healed people on the Sabbath was specifically challenge this notion that had been created that it was a day of do nothing but pray and read the Bible. It was to be a "restful" day. A day to get away from the "daily grind". the text is clear that one was to spend the day in devotion to god. there's nothing saying that the jews couldn't spend the rest of the week sitting on their duffs, if they chose to do so. *Quote:* The point Jesus is making is that God was being nice giving 1 out of every 7 days off, not trying to force them to stay home and be boarded and hungry. since they were required to get food the day before, and the sabbath consisted of three ceremonial meals, they weren't hungry. i'll have to take your word for it that devoting a day to the talmud and praying to god is boring.
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lajekahr	Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 9 12/19/07 10:37:37	First, I should point out that the origin of the word holiday is Holy Day, but we've kinda watered that down. Keep in mind that the holidays (Holy Days) came in a variety of forms and all were requirements, not optional. And has been established, the penalties of the OT were very stiff. So as to the Death Penalty as a stiff punishment, that is a whole nuther ball of wax and I think it is addressed somewhere around here, if not I'll take the time to hit that one up. So to say: "huge penalty = not made for us" isn't true. The Feast holidays were also mandatory and had stiff penalties for not following them, including death penalty and exile from the people. And ALL the feast holidays were given similar wording of "devotion to God, make preparations, etc" and they are obvious even to the modern reader of being more "fun" type stuff, such as setting up tents, eating rich foods, reclining to eat, blessing others, etc. Okay, I mean from a certain perspective "bored and hungry". For some people, eating leftovers and studying/meditating all day would be a horrible day, even if you didn't have to do your daily chores. As I reread my point I think I will need to touch a bit more on the death penalty thing. The quick answer: When we sin, we die, period. It destroys a part of us and creates difficulties in our relationships with others. The OT penalties were so stiff as a real reminder that evil spreads rapidly and can cause the death of the community as a whole if left unchecked. Whether this is fair to the modern mindset is a point of huge debate. Look at the state of the death penalty even in murder cases these days.
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Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	09/07/05 22:44:24	Waterrock
Do good on the sabbath	01/30/06 00:32:00	Hebrews 5 12
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	02/28/06 01:21:03	Rev Etherman
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	02/28/06 07:09:55	Yark Hutprancer
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	04/22/06 15:50:32	murfdog19
..............ugh	12/17/07 15:23:36	lajekahr
Re: ..............ugh	12/17/07 19:07:47	jeff
Sabbath made for man! Not the other way around	12/18/07 08:08:09	lajekahr
Sabbath made by god, for god, clearly stated.	12/18/07 08:37:32	Keith and Company
Re: Sabbath made for man! Not the other way around	12/18/07 17:02:33	jeff
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	12/22/07 13:36:54	Jenth101
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	12/19/07 10:37:37	lajekahr
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	12/19/07 11:04:58	Keith and Company
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	12/19/07 16:00:22	jeff
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	12/20/07 12:31:56	lajekahr
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	12/20/07 12:58:42	Keith and Company
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	12/20/07 16:21:29	jeff
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	12/21/07 21:58:05	utopian indigent
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	12/22/07 06:00:08	Argy Lacedom
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	12/22/07 08:55:08	Hawker Hurricane
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	12/22/07 11:37:42	Argy Lacedom
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	12/22/07 19:22:16	1skybluepink
Re: Matthew 12:3-8 - Do Good On The Sabbath	12/23/07 13:48:10	Argy Lacedom
more on the Sabbath	12/27/07 09:26:29	lajekahr
Re: more on the Sabbath	12/27/07 16:40:38	Argy Lacedom
Re: more on the Sabbath	12/28/07 16:15:12	Yark Hutprancer
Re: more on the Sabbath	12/28/07 07:44:17	jeff
Re: more on the Sabbath	12/28/07 16:18:23	Yark Hutprancer
Re: more on the Sabbath	01/02/08 08:04:44	lajekahr
Re: more on the Sabbath	01/02/08 13:54:14	Hawker Hurricane
Re: more on the Sabbath	01/02/08 17:07:50	Malkut
Re: more on the Sabbath	01/02/08 20:30:53	Hawker Hurricane
Re: more on the Sabbath	01/02/08 17:42:19	jeff
Re: more on the Sabbath	01/03/08 11:54:44	lajekahr
Re: more on the Sabbath	01/03/08 12:01:05	Keith and Company
Re: more on the Sabbath	01/06/08 12:34:41	lajekahr
Re: more on the Sabbath	01/06/08 14:46:15	Argy Lacedom
Re: more on the Sabbath	01/06/08 16:47:21	Malkut
Re: more on the Sabbath	01/06/08 23:25:47	Hawker Hurricane
Re: more on the Sabbath	01/07/08 04:56:34	Keith and Company
Re: more on the Sabbath	01/14/08 08:11:41	lajekahr