Yuku free message boards

Quote:

---

End game - i win

---

If you say so...

Your contradiction is sloppy and leaves a bit to be desired. Even if the Bible actually described Jesus going to hell, which it doesn't, that doesn't necessitate a contradiction. Here is the passage:

Luke 16:19-31

Quote:

---

There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

---

The problem is that Abraham, not God, told the rich man that "they" can't pass the divide. Who, "they" is is not explained, but the rich man was asking for Lazarus specifically to bring him a fingertip of water. It might be that people who have died and gone to either place can't pass, but the gods can. If Abraham was talking about people, then he might still be correct even if Jesus can pass with no problem.

Another thing to remember is that this story is told as a parable during a sermon. It would seem that this exchange didn't really take place in history, but that the story is being used simply to explain some point. Whether or not the universe described within a parable matches reality seems to be lees important than the message that is being presented. In other words, it's a bit dangerous to assume that the universe of the parable is supposed to provide details about the real universe. I know that seems a silly way to present a point, using an unrealistic story, but religious leaders seem to like to do silly things. There would be no contradiction if the Bible claimed that wolves don't talk, but also contained a parable about a talking wolf.

On a side note, this story emphasizes the requirement for people to have to have faith in the prophets of the past. For some reason, god won't convince us he exists today. He would rather us believe the religion's founders and that ought to be enough. Why god would do this is beyond me. It's as if the guy doesn't realize that it is dangerous for people to trust other people. Why should we trust Moses and "the prophets" when clearly, there are so many false prophets?

Since there is no god, it is pretty obvious that these requirements for faith were built into religions in order to keep the religions alive. Unless we trust in the originators of false belief, the false belief will die.