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Fiction: Oh no I totally agree. I wasn't offended and I'm not attacking Christians. It's just a story I saw on the news recently I was merely trying to show you the it exists everywhere. I'm not saying my religion is better than whoevers. Everyone is free to choose whatever he wants to believe. I'm not asking you to believe. I'm interested in your point of view that's it. I'm assuming your in this forum to debate so I gave you my opinion. I like to find out why you believe what you do. I'm not going to make fun of you or look down on you because of it. I'm trying to look at the world through other people's eyes. Open my mind. Hopefully learn new things

Malkut:-

It's a nasty habit I picked up over the years. I'll keep this short.

I'll tell you what. I've met a lot of atheists over the years. I find that most are practical people who are well informed but choose no to believe because their religion is based on science and math. They believe in absolute truths. They listen to what you have to say then give proper intelligent arguments. I've also met idiots who have nothing significant to say. Those people tend to be the guys or girls attacking you with crap that's completely irrelevant..

I'm not telling anyone what they think or what they should think. How they should feel. At no point did I do that. Only thing I am guilty of is asking people to discuss instead of slate. Argue with coherent well informed posts instead of the posts you sometimes find. Get to know why the other thinks what he does. We'll get no where if we're all on the offensive. People in both parties religious or not are guilty of this. Not everyone though.

If you're referring to "If you're thinking but other Muslim countries do this and that then you're really talking about a country now aren't you.." as being the hypothetical it doesn't apply to you if you didn't think it. Some people would I've had that said to me numerous times. I just thought I might as well cover it.

I actually should thank you for your questions. You took the time to read my short novel and brought up a couple of points you didn't agree with. I gave you an answer. I apologize sincerely and profusely if I came off as being aggressive. It would've been a lot easier to do it face to face you would've heard my tone of voice. I just gave you an answer with examples. Something to back up my beliefs.

Fiction Everything I talked about I had said to me. It's not like I woke up one day and decided this is what people think. The whole disgusting Christians thing. I was at a coffee shop when the news was on. I was sat with a group of my friends. One of them did unfortunately say Christians are disgusting. I personally felt sorry for them as people, especially those girls who try to run away. They talk about other girls in there too scared to leave. They also talk about those who strongly believe in this. We can't feel sorry for the one who believe. Why should we? If they're happy living that way then who are we to judge.

Argy Lacedom unfortunately you're kind of right. Thing is there are a plethora of religious people who aren't extremists, who are actually good people. They far outweigh those who have "insane" points of view. People don't bother to get to know a religion and it's people. They've already decided how they feel and when they watch things like the news all they see are things that confirm their beliefs. You have no idea how many U.S. soldiers who've come here and told us how they didn't expect us to be like this that they had this warped view of how a Muslim country would be. Some we've become good friends with. Point is they spent time talking to Muslims, spent time learning our culture. They learned we're all basically the same.

Jenth101 no read the relevant book with an open mind. If you're bias you're not going to understand the true meaning. You're just going to find things that confirm your beliefs. Come to my country you might be surprised. Don't rely on the stories you read on the news. Like I said you don't have to believe that God exists. That's your prerogative. Many things we believe are just theories. The big bang and evolution are just that.. Theories.. They don't disprove god. They themselves haven't really been proved without a shadow of a doubt. Yet you're happy believing them. Why can't god have instigated the big bang. Space is a vast nothingness, how did it suddenly spring to life, how did matter in this nothingness come to be in the first place? Evolution now why couldn't Adam and Eve's spirits have been injected in the first human beings? Extortion? Man it's a tax for policing and healthcare. They didn't harass them. They let them be. They traded with them. Countries nowadays tax their civilians for health care for the police. It's not extortion. It's simply a method to pay for the care they provided. Government have expenses they have to pay the people who do the protecting. Mind you back then women were buried alive because they were thought of being inferior they were raped. Not to mention the nomads that went from one tribe to another either robbing or killing everything and everyone. It was truly barbaric we're talking about 1,000 years ago. The Muslims stopped all of that.

9/11 thing.. I was surprised myself when I saw the proof and yes it was collected by Americans for Americans. The manner in which the building fell, the fact that the people who constructed the building specifically mentioned that the metal they had used could've easily withstood the temps inside the building, the fact that despite everything being destroyed 1 passport which was completely unscathed remained. The calls made from the airplane. This guy calculated the probability of a call getting through at the height the plane was at. .05% yet clear as day. The guy speaks to his mom and says Hi mom it's (I'm making this name up because I can't remember the real one) Ben Jackson. When's the last time you called your mom and used your full name. There were no.. I repeat NO debris next to the pentagon. A plane doesn't disintegrate on impact you should get pieces of it everywhere. The side of the pentagon that got hit was reinforced few months before the attack. Reinforced to withstand an attack such as the one that happened. Look for something called loose change.. It's on the net. Look man I was as surprised as you. Could be a wake up call for you.

Freedom of speech is the freedom to say whatever you want and not have your government come after you. You still need to deal with the consequences of what you say. Ever heard of defamation of character slander? Be a human being, be considerate why print something that'll piss off a large group of people? Freedom of speech was designed so people can speak against their government and not be scared. It wasn't designed to slate people for no reason. You don't live in the real world if you think that we should be able to get away with everything we do and say. It just doesn't work that way.

And yes in my country we are considerate of others. Have you ever been? I doubt it. You wouldn't know. You hear shit on the news and you jump to conclusions. An article about it was written in the New York Times by one of those travel journalists. He slated the country because the hotel he chose to stay at didn't have alcohol didn't have half naked women walking around the swimming pool. The hotel was isolated in the middle of the dessert because it was designed specifically for businessmen who wanted peace and quiet. Mind you my country is so small you can go from the very southern tip to the northern tip in less than an hour in half if there's no traffic yet he never left his room. On the website there were plenty of replies from expats who criticizes this man because he never bothered leaving the hotel never bothered getting to know the country. People who've spent over 10 years here. Just goes to show you that if you don't bother getting out there and experiencing things you'll be missing out.

The middle east isn't retarded and barbaric. Can you name the countries that are barbaric and retarded.. Islam isn't the underlying problem. It's the lack of wealth in some of the countries. Lack of people outside the country caring enough to do anything but criticize. The countries that are lucky enough have developed. This shit takes time. We've only recently started to develop, and if you come here you might be impressed by how far we've come in such a short period of time. That's what we need.. Time. Things don't change over night. But you're never going to.. You're going to live in that little bubble of yours, criticizing the world when you haven't even bothered to really experience it. Not through books or T.V. but experience it first hand.

Do you know why people here hate the west. It's because they colonize a country. Rape it of all it's natural resources while not giving anything back to the people then piss off when shit gets a bit tough. Those colonized countries then need to develop infrastructure and everything else way after the west have built theirs with less resources now. Then you have the audacity to criticize them for being behind. It's an abusive relationship. Sort of like wife beating. We need time to get to where you're at.

Matthew Ellard.pedg
Modern civilisation must be thankful for arabic input into algorithms, numbers and algebra, when western civilisation was going through its "Dark Ages" and arabic culture has more to add to civilisation in the future. However what has this got to do with religion?

Islam pulled those people out of the dark ages. It fueled their quest for knowledge. To be a good Muslim you need to learn. Islam doesn't say screw everything else.. It inspires us to read everything from everywhere be well educated in other religions, sciences, and so on. They wanted to advance the Islamic nation. If you don't you're not being a true Muslim. If you preach uneducated shit then you're just another idiot.

I believe in absolute truths I don't see God all around me. I see an earthquake for what it is. I see wind and water for what they are. I must admit it made me doubt god's existence for a while. Thing is there are things that you just can't explain with science how did all this come to be. What brought about the big bang? Space is basically nothing. Yet somehow something happened that inspired life.

Muslims in theory should be one. There shouldn't be sects. And many Muslims would disagree. The reason we have sects is irrelevant now. The sects are basically the same. Everything about the way we pray the Quran the rules. They're all the exact same. Except for a couple of things that hardly matter now. It's a shame. I don't personally see Sunni Shiite.. I see Muslims killing other Muslims and it's extremely sad. Mind you sects don't matter when an attack on a Muslim country happens. The Jihad everyone is so scared of ensures that every Muslim comes to the aid of the Muslims being invaded. Muslims everywhere would fight to protect that Chinese man Sunni or Shiite if a war broke out.

(PS The bastards who committed 9/11 are less than human and I would not insult any arabic person by suggesting that it mattered that these people were arabic. Not everyone feels that way. They hate all Arabs because of it. I experienced it when I went to uni. We have as much hate and resentment for that attack. Those of us with common sense. Other's who don't.. They're angry for other reasons. They aren't religious reason. I covered them in the other post.

About why I think Islam is the correct interpretation. Well for me at least it makes the most sense. It doesn't reject all the other religions. To a Muslim there isn't a Christian God a Jewish God. There's One God. It's the most complete of all religions and the one that's completely unscathed. It brings all the other religions together and if you read it in Arabic not in English. It's amazingly written. Did you know that competitions were held by non Muslims poets (competitions weren't held by Muslims) to write something as beautiful as the Quran but none were able to beat or even match it. I'm an avid reader and honestly the way it flows the guidelines it sets. Islam really does teach you to accept other people. Not to force the religion on them. To learn from them. Helping the poor doesn't just give you points with God. It's something you have to do. A kind of tax every capable Muslim has to pay. It's called Zaka. If you have unused money that's just sitting around. A small percentage of that is supposed to go to the poor. We also have no head of Islam who's filthy rich. A person doesn't need to go through anyone to pray. It's an act that happens between you and God. There is never an intermediary. When we go to the Mosque we pray together but as individuals. Our Imam "priest" doesn't connect us to God. He's just a man to us. Think of him as the Mosque care taker. Sure he might lead the prayer but it's the exact same prayer we would've prayed had we been at home. If people used Islam as a guide and not practice it as a religion. The world would be a much better place. Less disease, less poor, less hate, more education and just a feeling of brotherly love towards everyone. Utopia.. but could never happen. It's not the same with other religions. The technical details in Islamic finance, the economics, there are rules that are set that don't give you points with God that are mandatory such as Zaka.

I'm not here to convince people Islam is the right religion. I'm also not here to convert atheists. I just want to understand other's points of view. I don't know maybe try to curb the hate even if it's by explaining Muslim points of view to one person who truly wants to learn and not just attack.