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Refute this:
Abdullah ibn Saad

During Muhammad's Era
According to Baidawi in Tafsir "Anwar al-Tanzil wa Asrar al-Ta'wil", Muhammad dictated verses starting at (Qur'an 23:12) that says;

"We created man of an extraction of clay" and when Muhammad reached the part that says, "... thereafter We produced him as another creature (23:14)",
Abdullah ibn Saad said, "So blessed be God the fairest of creators!" in amazement at the details of man's creation.

The prophet said, "Write it down; for thus it has been revealed."
Abdullah doubted and said, "If Muhammad is truthful then I receive the revelation as much as he does, and if he is a liar, what I said is a good as what he said."
After this incident, Abdullah repudiated Islam, left Medina and went to Mecca, spreading his belief that Muhammad composed the Qur'an himself without divine intervention.

Following the conquest of Mecca in 629 CE, Muhammad ordered that Abdullah should be executed but Uthman protected him.
When conditions calmed, he was presented to Muhammad seeking pardon and offering the oath of loyalty.
However, Muhammad withheld his hand and maintained silence.
Uthman begged him to pardon Abdullah and on the third attempt Muhammad accepted Abdullah's oath of loyalty, effectively pardoning him.

Nevertheless, as soon as Abdullah had left, Muhammad turned to the Muslims who were in the room and asked: "Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?"
The companions, aghast, responded: "We did not know what you had in your heart, Apostle of Allah! Why did you not give us a signal with your eye?"
Muhammad said: "It is not advisable, for a prophet to play deceptive tricks with the eyes."

Lessons:
1) Mohammed made up the Qur'an
2) Mohammed made promises (general amnesty for the Quraish) that he never intended to keep

raphjd wrote:

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Lessons:
1) Mohammed made up the Qur'an
2) Mohammed made promises (general amnesty for the Quraish) that he never intended to keep

Pot, meet kettle

Oh, please, continue!

You're implying that you know of a Bible writer's contemporary who said something interesting (like Saad did) and was invited by that Bible writer to have it included in the Bible?

Pray tell, who, what, when, where?

Don't be just a tease.

raphjd wrote:

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Did I say that?!

Look at the bit I quoted.

I know.

What you did was leave an insinuation hanging out there with NOTHING to back it up.

I'm just saying.....put your proof to your (shall I call it a hasty generalization?) pudding.

I gave an historically accurate, well accepted, in hadith and secular work, account about how Mo dealt with being called a liar after he tried to co-opt a man's words into the koran (sort of taking the easy way) when the man (Saad) knew what he had said was NOT from anywhere but inside his own head.
Mo tried to have Saad killed to cover up his own lying about the veracity of his claims that his words were inspired.
Mo stole from all sorts of folks, this was simply an account of his getting caught and how badly he handled it.

raphjd wrote:

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I agree with the historical accuracy of the parts i didn't quote.

That doesn't mean that the bible wasn't also made up.

Both the Quran and the bible are done in the same way. When they want something, god suddenly tells them to do it. It's all just too convenient.

In other words, you have no proof for you insinuation so you simply repeat it in the hopes it will eventually get believed.

I think Lenin came up with the maxim on that fallacious concept: repeat a lie often enough and some people will surely begin believing it.

It is still an unsubstantiated piece of flimsy smoke you play with.

Nothing more.

In the meantime, Mr Saad was a real historical figure, a naval military man in his time......and Mo's time.

His story is told in many sources, some religious (the hadiths) and other secular (works of the Egyptians).

raphjd wrote:

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And your proof that the bible is 100% true and accurate and nothing was taken from other religion?!

I want absolute proof.

Wait a minute, R.

You are the one who made the unsubstantiated allegation.

You cannot expect to simply turn the tables and move the goalposts and insist that I prove anything about the issue to you.

You have the onus of the burden of proof.

You must back up your claims.