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For DfT: Is anyone good? Steve Wells
DfT seems to believe that pretty much everyone is a "God hater" and that no one is good. So it was Okay for God to send Katrina -- they were all God haters anyway and deserved to die.

But as Brian Cohen Biggus Dickus pointed out, Jesus disagrees. (Though as usual he also disagrees with himself.)

So tell us, DfT, does God make the sun rise on both the evil and the good? Or is there, as you say, "no such thing as good men"?

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The scriptural support for the doctrine of total depravity is well established. Before providing the evidence for this, perhaps it is easier to first deal with the objections you have raised.

Your "contradictions" page lists verses that supposedly counter the doctrine of total depravity.

In regard to your quote of Matthew 5:45... "For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust"...

It is important to recognize that Jesus is not necessarily making a doctrinal statement here regarding total depravity. He is using a figure of speech to demonstrate that God is gracious unto all people. All people in this context includes both the seemingly good and bad. Could an argument be made to show that this verse actually supports the doctrine of total depravity? The answer is yes...

When you quoted the verse, the first phrase of the sentence in the verse is conveniently left out... Or, perhaps you were fooled into accepting Brian's quote of the verse before checking it out... In either case, your quote gives a false impression that the first word in the verse is the word "For" because the first letter "F" is capitalized in your quote (whereas it is not capitalized in the KJV). The entire verse quoted in the KJV is as follows: "That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." (emphasis mine) Who are the "good" that Jesus is referring to? In the context of the passage, Jesus is referring to the "children of your Father" as being good, i.e., the elect. The elect are described as good in the sciptures because their righteousness is of God, not of themselves.



In regard to Matthew 13:47-48... "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away."

The context of this passage is the kingdom of heaven. Jesus is describing how the good (i.e., the elect) will be gathered unto Himself. The elect are good only because of the righteousness of God that is within them. However, it is important to remember that this passage is a parable, and that doctrinal statments based upon individual components of the parable do not hold much weight.





In regard to Matthew 22:10... "So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests."

This is a very difficult passage for many reasons. There are many differing interpretations. At this stage in my walk of life as a believer, I have not yet found a satisfactory explanation for all of the details of this parable. In regard to "both bad and good", it is important to keep in mind that Jesus is using a parable to make His points. The individual details of parables cannot be assumed to be doctrinal statements.





In regard to 2 Corinthians 5:10... "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

The "all" in this passage is clearly referring to the elect of God (read the verses preceeding)... The elect do both good and bad throughout their lives, and will appear before the judgment seat of Christ. As in the previous examples, the elect are called good because of the righteousness within them that is of God, not of themselves.



As mentioned earlier, the weight of biblical evidence for the doctrine of total depravity is overwhelming. I suggest that you consider adding more verses on the left side of your so-called contradictions page... Some of those verses should include:

Romans 8:6-9; Jeremiah 17:9; Genesis 6:5; Psalm 51:5; Ephesians 2:1, 5; Psalm 58:3; John 3:19; 8:34; 1 Corinthians 2:14; Proverbs 14:12; 2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Timothy 2:26

I also suggest reading the following link... www.gotquestions.org/tota...avity.html

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Re: For DfT: Is anyone good? Brian Cohen Biggus Dickus
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is referring to the "children of your Father" as being good, i.e., the elect. The elect are described as good in the sciptures because their righteousness is of God, not of themselves.


Thank you for the definition of good. However, these `elect' are still `good' for whatever reason, and so this still contradicts the `there is none good except father in heaven etc.' statement.

Either there are good on earth or only God is good. The point should be made that any claim that both statements are true is a contradiction, pure and simiple.

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I agree that, on the surface, it appears to be a contradiction. However, as is so common with these so-called contradictions, there are distinctions which explain away the apparent contradiction. In this case, the elect are called good because of God who dwells within them, not because they are inherently good. When Jesus said that there is none good except the Father, He meant it.

Another important point was demonstrated in the link provided earlier. A portion of it is quoted below:

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Misconceptions:

Total depravity does not assert that man cannot do nice things, be friendly, desire the benefits of God (peace, joy, love, comfort, etc.), appear to be good according to a human standard, or even desire to have a god to be devoted and obedient to. Total Depravity does not teach that every unsaved man is as wicked as he could be. Total Depravity does not teach that unsaved men desire to do every form of evil there is. Total Depravity does not teach that God is making men sin internally, but that men sin willfully by decisions to do so (James 1:13). Total Depravity simply affirms that, in terms of belief in the Gospel and obedience to the things of God, no man will ever come to Christ or submit to God on his own, because he is spiritually dead and is incapable of seeing his spiritual need to do so. Salvation is virtually impossible for those apart from Christ (Mark 10:26-27). Therefore, every good thing that an unsaved man does is displeasing to God (Hebrews 11:6) because Gods wrath abides on Him.
source: www.gotquestions.org/tota...avity.html

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When Jesus said that there is none good except the Father, He was not saying that men never do good things. This is an important distinction.