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Greetings to Abdurrahman zer (Galip Rahman).

In the name of Jesus Christ, the living Word of God --

As you may have noticed already, most of the regular participants in the Discussion Board here at the SAB are infidels. They respect Jesus and the prophets less than you do.

Now about your comments. First, please understand that I don't have time for a prolonged discussion about this, due to a stack of planned projects calling for my attention. Just think of this as something written not so much to persuade you, but to inform you about what Christians do and do not believe. Perhaps you can find someone at a site like TheologyWeb who can devote more time to your comments.

GR: "As you have perceived enough well, Christians claim their God Jesus, God Father and Holy Spirit God to be same and equal Gods in one."

We consider the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit to be co-eternal and uncreated, and to share in the same divine essence, so that where the Father is, there is God. And where the Son is, there is God. And where the Holy Spirit is, there is God.

GR: "Paul teaches the Spirits to be angels in fact."

Angels are spiritual beings. But Paul does not mean by this that the Holy Spirit is merely a created angel.

GR: "Now, I wonder, those all angels are Gods?"

No; they angels are not the uncreated Creator. In Hebrew (the language in which Moses wrote), the word for "God" is capable of referring to angels when it is put into a plural form, and it can even to human representatives of God who operate as his agents in human government. But this linguistic detail cannot justify thinking that any angel is the uncreated Creator (al-Rahman).

GR: "Christians say that worshipping one of their God, means to worship other two."

Not exactly. We only worship one God. In the act of worshiping any one of the Persons of the Godhead -- the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit -- all three Persons are worshipped.

GR: "Paul says these; But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Since the book of Hebrews, in which that statement is found (Hebrews 2:8) is not signed, quite a few Christians do not identify its writer as Paul.

GR: "Despite to all incoherent and perverse teachings of the Bibles, even the Christians can never accept the angels to equal with God."

Agreed, because there is no God but God.

GR: "If Jesus was created/made little or much lower than the angels, then how can Christians keep Jesus equal and same with God who created the angles?"

The idea is that the pre-existent, uncreated Word of God, eternally emanated by the Father, took human form and was miraculously manifested in the womb of Mary, and was born, and lived as Jesus. As long as the Word occupied a human body, apart from heavenly glory, He was limited in ways that the angels are not limited -- he experienced hungry, thirst, and physical weariness. It is in that sense that Jesus was "lower than the angels" -- not in nature, but in abilities, and not inherently, but voluntarily and temporarily.

GR: "If also Jesus is lower than angels, then how can it be same worshipping to angles/spirits means to worship God?"

Just read the Scripture you cited and you will see the answer: Jesus /was/ "lower than the angels," but He is not /now./ After completing the mission for which the Father sent Him, He was "crowned with glory and honor."

GR: "Well, if agels are greter than Jesus, and for Christians worship Jesus, than of course they must worship something which is greter than Jesus!"

Angels are not greater than Jesus; when the Word became flesh, and dwelled among us, He emptied Himself of a measure of divine privilege and power, to the extent that He was as human as Adam was. But He is not now limited in that way.

GR: "Allah created Adam by making him greter than the angels! And all angels bowed down to Adam to show they acceppted his becoming greater than themselves."

First, the Quran's statements about the angels bowing down to Adam (and the story of Iblis' refusal) are probably based on the same tradition that the "Gospel of Bartholomew" is based on, if not directly from contact with the contents of that book.

Second, Adam is greater than the angels in terms of status, not power. A king's horse is faster than the king, and a king's bodyguard is probably stronger than the king -- but in both cases, the king has a superior, governing role.

GR: "Even, that was written in Torah, Davids Book Zaboor and Bible."

As far as I know, there is no evidence for that. There /is/ evidence, however, that the "Gospel of Bartholomew" promoted something like the story that is in the Quran.

GR: "Jews falsified and changed these all books into lies and Paul changed the Bible into lies and blurted this many times. Remeber what he was saying in early beginings of his leter to Hebrews; God said to angels to worship Adam.

That isn't what Hebrews 1:6 says. It says "And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says, 'Let all God's angels worship Him."

Right that he had also changed the word Bow down with worship,but what whatever happens, today neither in Torah or Davids book, you can not find where God says such a thing as Paul quoted!"

First, the term used for "worship" describes the act of bowing down; the author of the book of Hebrews is simply pointing out that Jesus not the servant of angels; He was served by angels, and this was illustrative of His relationship with the Father. Angels served the nation of Israel (figurative pictured in the Old Testament as God's "firstborn"), and they also served Jesus (who is the only-begotten -- not in the sense of being physically produced by God, as the heretical pseudo-Christians of Arabia thought during Muhammad's era, but in the sense that Jesus perfectly expressed the uncreated character of the Father.)

The author of the Letter to the Hebrews was citing Deuteronomy 32:43. The Septuagint -- a Greek translation of the Torah, attested by manuscripts much older than the main base-manuscripts of the Hebrew Masoretic Text -- supports this reading. Also, one of the Dead Sea Scrolls contains it.

GR: "These words related to bowing down Adam is in only Koran today,"

As I mentioned already, the "Gospel of Bartholomew" presents the scenario of the creation of Adam, the command for the angels to do obeisance to Adam, and Iblis' refusal to do so and his resultant punishment.

GR: ... "as Christians keep their Jesus equal and same to their God Father, then that means, Adam who was created by God was both greater than the angels and the Father and Son Gods of Christians!"

No; the second statement is not implied by the first one. Adam was, and is, an inherently created being.

GR: "What about Jacob? He had beaten both the angels and the God (of Christians), then as he is greater than angles and the God of Christians, then the the biggest God of Christian Myth must be Jacob."

If you read the story about Jacob in the book of Genesis and did a little research about it, you probably wouldn't be making claims like this.

GR: "As you have witnnessed so far, Christianity is a pile of lies which are full of contradictions because of these lies!"

Of course as a Christian I disagree. I am wondering, in light of your claim that Christianity is a "pile of lies," why Al-Baraqah 62 states that those who believe a pile of lies and do righteous deeds will have their reward with their Lord, and on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

In the name of Jesus,

Waterrock