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Bowofhak wrote:

That's right. That is why I suggested that you read books on the matter and why I listed some of the fields of study that form the framework of the th eory. It is your choice if you wish to read them or not.

I've read and studied a good deal of them already...
I do not think you have otherwise you would not have queried if I thought the petri dish -experiment was evidence of the theory of evolution. Please not that all the fundamentalists who come to this site claim to have read detailed books on evolution...but have not.

Really? So the stories passed down by Abraham for many generations in the Akkadian language do not matter and Islamic scholars should not bother to interpret the meaning of Abraham the prophet's words in his own language? I doubt scholars would agree with you on that. I guess the Quran must only be for Arabic speakers and thus not for the whole world.

What did Abraham claim his source of these stories to be?
There is no real person called Abraham and thus he can not claim anything. The stories come from the tales of Gilgamesh. Please educate yourself further by comparing the dates of the flood myths from Gilgamesh and the spread of the stories by "Abraham" to the middle east. You will need to read about the religions surrounding Ur and Sumer. You will see where the original stories came from.

Under the assumption that the Quran deems a high standard of living good, this may have made sense.

Why do you assume the Quran deems a higher standard of living good? Don't you mean buddhism?

That's right. I only try to know about evidence based science and history. I'm not an islamic religious scholar. Is it a "problem" not knowing the myths about "adam & eve" and "the flood" and "the creation"? How so?

In that case, don't debate on what you do not understand. They call this ignorance.
No I study anthropological pre history. Islam is a recent last version of the Abrahamic religions. I study the evidence on the origins of religion. It would be pointless studying Islam from 400AD when I'm studying Abraham from 1800BC. You need to get your self a big wall planner and write down the dates for various religions. It must be very hard for you to study history from before 400AD if you have to use an islamic scholar's point of view. In fact it is pointless.

Very funny...I can only guess you are confused because you are religious and therefore do not have to have a logical and systematic mind....but I do enjoy that you are still clinging to the modern english word "day" when considering a bronze age Akkadian myth that you believe in ( Although you seem uninterested in finding the Akkadian meaning of the word that would elucidate your religion to you). I guess you are not really concerned with Abraham's intent in his words.

You don't understand it was you using the English word day whilst I refuted that do you?
No I showed how it was pointless for you to use a modern english word to describe the meaning of the Quran that uses another translation of an Akkadian word. I do not know why you are disinterested in the history of your Quran and its interpretation.


Also, you're age declarations are all over the place... (bronze age? stone age?)
You will see that I have also used hard dates because the period in time I am discussing crosses bronze and stone age. I thought you knew that.

Exactly, that was the warning from the Quran wasn't it? Don't put up other gods before me. It was about decorations? or are you saying Allah is concerned about other actual Gods? Are the other God's more powerful than Allah? Why is is Allah so frightened? Is this why he never shows himself?

Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not gods, God is pretty much impartial about what we do.
This is a skeptic web site. The Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and the Abrahamic gods are all equal mythical characters from history that do not appear on their own and no evidence exists for them. ( Apart from Santa Claus who was a Turkish monk and whose body actually does exist.

Yes...I always check my work against a bronze age book written in another language

You should, seeing that all your criticism were already addressed and dismantled 1000 years ago.
I was not alive 1000 years ago and I doubt you and I would be dating about the english word "day" 1000 years ago. This statement is not correct.

A sperm drop? Allah has sperm? and he plays with it? We have Allah's DNA in our DNA? This must be our next discussion because gene mapping shows the genes we share with apes. How did Allah's sperm and ape DNA get into humans? Someone is not telling the truth.

It's Simple, Allah created both humans and apes out of sperm or "Nuftah".
Then why do humans also have mitochondrial DNA that is shared with all animals including possums, goats, pigs, monkeys, etc? Even stranger why do all humans share the base gene set for sexual reproduction as all sexually reproducing creatures including trees,
( You know the answer to this from your biological studies that you mention earlier?)

Funny, the Christian say the same thing about God, the jews about Yaweh, the Hindus about Shiva, the Zoroastrians about Baal, and so on and so on... Luckily science requires hard evidence....I think I will stick to science thanks.

Islam teaches that all the gods of all the religions are the same. The names applied are just names, distorted as languages have been. This will be a shock for Hindus and Buddhists. Are you aware that Hinduism is older than the Abrahamic religions. How could Shiva the female destroyer be a Quranic god?

So the Quran is the only evidence that Allah is going to send? Then how come the earliest Torah from 1200BC has some of the same stories? Is it not evidence? What about the tales of Gilgamesh from 1000 years before the Quran? Gilgamesh has "adam & eve" and "the flood". Are your saying Allah's book version of these earlier stories is the only authorised compilation edition? Do you think Abraham would approve? Why did Allah bother with Abraham?

Again, where do these other books and Abraham claim their source to be from? See answer above and read a wall map with the timings of religions.

I was using rhetoric, which is a argument technique where you pose a silly question that does not need an answer. Arabic scholars knew the world was round when dumb westerners thouggt it was flat. I was separating "fundamentalists" as flat earthers.

And you don't think that's a little unfair considering the irrelevance? No it is a standard debating technique in oratory that has been used for 2000 years and was taught by Greek and Arabic scholars and adopted by the Romans. They still teach it here at school and use it in debating contests

I agree. Early islamic culture was about education and civilisation when the rest of us were barbaric. I am very supportative of the culture but not fundamental religion.

It has been the habit of man to be grossly un-supportive and intolerant to those that hold different opinions/religion/ideas from them. Atheists only seem to further exhibit this.
Show me one newspaper headline "Fundamentalist Atheist blows up bus" It is Abrahamic people like protestants killing catholics in Ireland, or catholics killing orthodox people in the Crusades or Sunni people killing Shiite people in Iraq, or Jews killing children in Palestine that cause the problem.

I have no questions about the Bible, The Quran or the Torah

Becuase, you're not trying to listen or see anything at all, nor reason rationally.
I am actually waiting for you to present some evidence.

I wonder what an "hour" was in bronze age Medina...

In the English, Arabic or Akkadian definition? You need to stop contradicting yourself.
I was teasing you about introducing another English time word. I will keep the jokes simple from now on.

Its cool, no religion can control all its members. You will note that many dicussion on this forum are about the fact that many religions have no common belief framework. I understand you are only talking about your beliefs.

Hence why I quote the Quran, it's the most irrefutable framework of Islam there is.
Sunni or Shiite? I guess they never fight ( This is called sarcasm)