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Bowofhak wrote: Yes, I see... but I fail to understand how this demonstrates to you how the world's species evolved from creatures entirely dissimilar. Perhaps you can use a random stroke generator to put an extra touch of paint and compliment a master piece, but that doesn't demonstrate that the entire masterpiece was generated by it...

It doesn't. This experiment only offers evidence of macro evolution and the generation of new genes from mutation. It's OK . You haven't got a science background so you are struggling already The evidence for evolution on life on earth comes from many sources including comparative gene mapping, mitochondrial DNA, anatomical morphological simularity statistics, the fossil record, environmental evidence and many other scientific areas of study. I studied anthropological pre-history and hominid evolution. You should buy yourself a couple of good books on the subject and then argue on specific issues rather than a global "I don't understand"

"Yawm" not "Day", "Day" just happens to be the best translation for it as they are both referencing periods of time. You need to realise that the Quran actually predates the English language, when you learn that you'll realise the flaw in your understanding of bronze age language in general, perhaps your science will too.

Hmm I think you will find Akkadian pre-dates the Quranic Arabic and the word is taken from Akkadian, the language of Abraham. Therefore I think you really should be showing me the meaning of Yawm in Akkadian if you want to correct your flaws in your understanding of bronze age language and how the illiterate Mohomet tried to use them after hearing the tales of Abraham. (You do understand Abraham was before Mohomet and Mohomet was a messenger boy relating Abraham's stories? )

Thank you for showing me the 20th century meanings of the english word day and trying to apply it to a bronze age myth book written in another language. We do not do things like this science because it is really stupid and a waste of time.

Your'e a theist who belives in god so I'm not really worried about your "benchmark for logic".

And you're an atheist that can't comprehend eternity, so I'm not particularly worried either.
You do not have to worry because you believe in burning bushes, spirit creatures, angels that float around delivering messages, a magic world that is only 6,000 years old. I doubt children really worry about Santa Claus either. Feel free to follow their example.

The idea is not to worry about what other people think of you, but whether their opinion of you holds any validity, especially when they have to constantly correct your lexicographical mistakes... hmmm...
Thank you very much. I will always remember you as the person who quoted the modern english word for "Day" as evidence that some stone age myth book has more validity than "Harry Potter" or "the Illiad". Keep up the good work!

6. ..."I am but a man like you: iti is revealed to me By Inspiration, that your God Is one God: so take the straight path unto Him and ask for his forgiveness. And woe to those who join gods with Allah,
Is that similar to why you cannot have the Easter Bunny decorations up at the same time as Santa Claus decorations? What's the worst Allah is going to do....I'm mean he hasn't done anything that anyone has ever seen. He has watched his Palestinian children being murdered and starved..but hasn't lifted a finger....He has watch us European atheists improve our standard of living while millions of muslims are starving. Perhaps Allah prefers atheists. The evidence points that way....or perhaps he doesn't exist like the Christian /Jewish god doesn't exist.

9. ..."Is it that ye deny him who created the earth in two days? And do you join equals with him? He is the lord of (all) the worlds.
Odd that the lord or all the world is so frightened that he will not show his face in public. He will not make direct contact with his own brethren, he will not directly attack his brethrens enemies, he will not help clean up environmental problems etc...As Lord's go this Lord is pathetic and should be sacked or overthrown as useless. No wonder humans have to vote in other humans into government....we'd be waiting for decades for Allah to even make a suggestion.

You are actually educating me in a funny way. Arabic culture is one of the most educated cultures on the planet. Mathematicians like Ali Gb'her helped drag Europe out of the dark ages through their good work. Arabic and middles eastern culture is as important as any other culture on this planet......yet us Westerners and Arabic culture still suffers from fundamentalist loonies who believe in the flat earth, the 6000 year old and magic gods that don't actually do anything... Perhaps both cultures should buy a little island and stick all our fundametalist Christians, Muslims and Jews on it...and forget about them. We did it to the "Flat Eathers". Are you also a "Flat Earther"?

Rambo123UK wrote:

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I wish I still had the time, energy and dedication to trawl through this sort of crap and reply like I used to, but I should at this juncture say how much I enjoy watching you do so.

Bowofhak wrote:

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Hmmm... I like your reply, very straightforward and penetrating, but if I may....You're a tad mistaken, my claim was not that I did not understand, but that the findings on micro and macro evolution do not support the theory of evolution as the origin of all species.

That's right. That is why I suggested that you read books on the matter and why I listed some of the fields of study that form the framework of the theory. It is your choice if you wish to read them or not.

Very true, the Arabic language does have an origin, but it wouldn't make sense to use the Akkadian meaning as the Quran was revealed in Arabic, not Akkadian. As the Quran itself states, many times, aware of this fact.

Really? So the stories passed down by Abraham for many generations in the Akkadian language do not matter and Islamic scholars should not bother to interpret the meaning of Abraham the prophet's words in his own language? I doubt scholars would agree with you on that. I guess the Quran must only be for Arabic speakers and thus not for the whole world.

You do not have to worry because you believe in burning bushes, spirit creatures, angels that float around delivering messages, a magic world that is only 6,000 years old. I doubt children really worry about Santa Claus either. Feel free to follow their example.

You don't think that bushes can burn? I can understand your criticism of spirit creatures and angels, but apparently bushes can burn. Furthermore, you seem to be seeping in Christian ideas into Islamic ones. Islam does not give a specific date to the earth, but it does denote that there has been a long time for it. We are taught that 124,000 prophets were sent to mankind. In only 6,000 years that would be more that 20 prophets per year. Whereas the Quran Denotes that prophet's were sent to individual nations.

I treat the three Abrahamic religions as one and the same, and equal: Jews, Christians and Muslims as they are the same religion in essence sharing the same god, some myths, some prophets and the odd angel. The fact that the main religion split into geographical sub-cults is not that important. "God" still does not show himself and atheists still have the highest standard of living suggesting God prefers atheists.

So as you can see, Islam supports a rather old earth. I think your problem is that you know little to nothing about the Quran and Islam.

That's right. I only try to know about evidence based science and history. I'm not an islamic religious scholar. Is it a "problem" not knowing the myths about "adam & eve" and "the flood" and "the creation"? How so?

Thank you very much. I will always remember you as the person who quoted the modern english word for "Day" as evidence that some stone age myth book has more validity than "Harry Potter" or "the Illiad". Keep up the good work!

You see, that what you wrote up there confuses me, not only because of your lack of understanding of the English words "the", "problem", "here", "is", "your" and "interpretation", but also to the fact that you seem to have a very short term memory and in such you actually, quite bizarrely, confused me for yourself. As crazy as that sounds, perhaps you'll understand better when you go to the previous pages and read your own posts where you use the modern English understanding of the word "day" as evidence that "some stone age" (interestingly changed from your previous post's use of bronze age to describe it) book has less validity.

Very funny...I can only guess you are confused because you are religious and therefore do not have to have a logical and systematic mind....but I do enjoy that you are still clinging to the modern english word "day" when considering a bronze age Akkadian myth that you believe in ( Although you seem uninterested in finding the Akkadian meaning of the word that would elucidate your religion to you). I guess you are not really concerned with Abraham's intent in his words.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here, but I always thought that you couldn't have Easter Bunny decorations and Santa Claus (Christmas?) decorations up at the same time because it would be a time paradox. The two festive seasons occur on entirely different times of the year...

Exactly, that was the warning from the Quran wasn't it? Don't put up other gods before me. It was about decorations? or are you saying Allah is concerned about other actual Gods? Are the other God's more powerful than Allah? Why is is Allah so frightened? Is this why he never shows himself?

I do believe the rest of your post is aptly dealt with by the Quran.
Yes...I always check my work against a bronze age book written in another language

37 His companion said to him in the course of the argument with him: "Dost thou deny Him Who created thee out of dust then out of a sperm-drop then fashioned thee into a man?

A sperm drop? Allah has sperm? and he plays with it? We have Allah's DNA in our DNA? This must be our next discussion because gene mapping shows the genes we share with apes. How did Allah's sperm and ape DNA get into humans? Someone is not telling the truth.

Odd that the lord or all the world is so frightened that he will not show his face in public. No wonder humans have to vote in other humans into government....we'd be waiting for decades for Allah to even make a suggestion.

Allah says that his existence is self-evident.
Funny, the Christian say the same thing about God, the jews about Yaweh, the Hindus about Shiva, the Zoroastrians about Baal, and so on and so on... Luckily science requires hard evidence....I think I will stick to science thanks.

Al-Ankabut - 29
50. Yet they say [As you have, Mathew] "Why are not Signs sent down to him from his Lord?" Say: "The Signs are indeed with Allah: and I am indeed a clear Warner."
51. And is it not enough for them that We have sent down to thee the Book which is rehearsed to them? [Like I have, Mathew] Verily in it is Mercy and Reminder to those who believe.

So the Quran is the only evidence that Allah is going to send? Then how come the earliest Torah from 1200BC has some of the same stories? Is it not evidence? What about the tales of Gilgamesh from 1000 years before the Quran? Gilgamesh has "adam & eve" and "the flood". Are your saying Allah's book version of these earlier stories is the only authorised compilation edition? Do you think Abraham would approve? Why did Allah bother with Abraham?

I do not believe that Allah sends signs to us anymore...
Yes I think we agree on that

You are actually educating me in a funny way. Arabic culture is one of the most educated cultures on the planet. Mathematicians like Ali Gb'her helped drag Europe out of the dark ages through their good work. Arabic and middles eastern culture is as important as any other culture on this planet......yet us Westerners and Arabic culture still suffers from fundamentalist loonies who believe in the flat earth, the 6000 year old and magic gods that don't actually do anything... Perhaps both cultures should buy a little island and stick all our fundametalist Christians, Muslims and Jews on it...and forget about them. We did it to the "Flat Eathers". Are you also a "Flat Earther"?

I'm not sure where you get your information from, but Muslims generally don't believe in a Flat Earth.
I was using rhetoric, which is a argument technique where you pose a silly question that does not need an answer. Arabic scholars knew the world was round when dumb westerners thouggt it was flat. I was separating "fundamentalists" as flat earthers.

Besides, believing in flat earths and 6000 year old earths (although we don't believe in that at all) doesn't really do a lot of damage to humanity, sure it dampens scientific progress, but that's not something the earliest Islamic civilization was guilty of.
I agree. Early islamic culture was about education and civilisation when the rest of us were barbaric. I am very supportative of the culture but not fundamental religion.

I'm perturbed by the low level of your logic
Oh no....sob sob sob...another fundamentalist has shown me truth and I just don't get it...

and the emotional bias that swings here and there in your posts.
sob...sob...sob....but if only Allah sent me a message ( In english)...I'd be he best friend ...really..... trully...

I would make a suggestion to direct you on the path to improvement, but I honestly don't know where to begin. I can only say, try and read the Quran. It deals with most of the questions you have concerning it.
I have no questions about the Bible, The Quran or the Torah

As I like to, I'll end with a verse from it.

Saba - 34
The Unbelievers say "Never to us will come the hour":
I wonder what an "hour" was in bronze age Medina...

P.S. Apparently there was one individual that declare that the earth was not a sphere according to the Quran, but it caused great embarrassment in the Muslim world and he later said that he was mistaken and the he didn't deny that the earth was round.
Its cool, no religion can control all its members. You will note that many dicussion on this forum are about the fact that many religions have no common belief framework. I understand you are only talking about your beliefs.