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Greasus - I remember those two. I didn't know that Elephantcity was Keith. I kind of have this sneaky paranoia that Keith lingers still.

Rambo123UK wrote:

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Keith will return. It's more likely than the second coming of Jesus, anyway.

You know, the second coming of Jesus has more likely than not already happened. The JWs believe it happened in 1914. I am not sure that I would agree with that, but I would agree that it has already happened.

Rambo123UK wrote:

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And yet we have no kingdom of god.

How odd.

Are you sure?

Rambo123UK wrote:

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This is the kingdom of god?

Don't play stupid with me, Rambo.

The Kingdom of God was standing amongst the apostles. Don't ask me what the Kingdom of God is because you might have thought it was something else! The Kingdom of God hung upon the torture stake. Idiot.

The Kingdom of God threw down the angels. The kingdom of God is beyond.

Rambo - "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." -- Matthew16:28

"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." -- Luke 9:27

The answer is there in front of you. The trouble is that you expect the kingdom to be or at least to mean something that it isn't or doesn't because you are thinking like the religious. The same as those who thought Jesus would be a king in the way they thought he would be. James and Peter saw the transfiguration of Jesus.

Matfhew 17:1-2 - Six days later Jesus took Peter and James and John his brother along and brought them up into a lofty mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone as the sun, and his outer garments became brilliant as the light.

Mark 9:1-8 - Furthermore, he went on to say to them: "Truly I say to YOU, There are some of those standing here that will not taste death at all until first they see the kingdom of God already come in power." Accordingly six days later Jesus took Peter and James and John along, and brought them up into a lofty mountain to themselves alone. And he was transfigured before them, and his outer garments became glistening, far whiter than any clothes cleaner on earth could whiten them. Also, E·li´jah with Moses appeared to them, and they were conversing with Jesus. And responsively Peter said to Jesus: "Rabbi, it is fine for us to be here, so let us erect three tents, one for you and one for Moses and one for E·li´jah." In fact, he did not know what response he should make, for they became quite fearful. And a cloud formed, overshadowing them, and a voice came out of the cloud: "This is my Son, the beloved; listen to him." Suddenly, however, they looked around and saw no one with them any longer, except Jesus alone.

Also see Luke 9:26-37 and 2 Peter 1:16-18.

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Rambo - "Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation." -- Matthew 23:36

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matthew 24:34

"Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." -- Mark 13:30

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." -- Luke 21:32

What is Jesus talking about there, Rambo? Who is Barachiah (called Jehoiada in Second Chronicles 2 Chronicles 24:23-25)? Jesus' prophecy was fulfilled 37 years later at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. where 1 million Jews perished. The generation Jesus mentioned meant all generations that refused to listen or believe in him. The Greek word genea is used

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Rambo - "Nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." -- Matthew 26:64

"Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." -- Mark 9:1

"And ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." -- Mark 14:62

Greasus - Psalm 110 / Hebrews 10:12-13 / Daniel 7:13-14 Revelation 12:5-10 Acts 7:56.

Rambo123UK wrote:

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Right, so the coming of the kingdom of god was jesus getting his godly power 6 (or 8 - Lk 9:28 ) days (split the difference, call it a week) later? So his godly power made him "king" and created "god's kingdom"?

Jesus Christ was the Messiah - the King of the chosen people the Jews. The kingdom of God was with the Jewish people up until Nebuchadnezzer took them captive and the kingdom was no more. In the Book of Daniel you remember? The tree that was banded, which meant that it was all but destroyed and without growth until the Messiah whos exact presence on earth was foretold through the prophecy of Cyrus the Great. It was then that the kingdom was restored.

Now, if you are of the mind that Jesus failed in fulfilling this - which I assume that you are by your misuse of the scriptures you gave - it is because you are, like I said, thinking in the limited terms dictated to you through religious 'thought.' You expect a rapture or the destruction of the earth or paradise regained because you think of the Bible as having come from Babylonian and Greek (etc.) mythology when, in fact, it is the religious ideas that you are trying to interject into the equation that have originated from those philosophies and mythologies. Put simply, you missed the point.

I think that you have inadvertently taught me a lesson which has kept me going in blindness for quite some time; I tired of talking to the religious fairly soon in this spiritual journey of mine, because they were limited by religion and out of reach. Skeptics are religious thinking beings as well, but skeptics, at least in theory, have something else I couldn't put my finger on. A wall of a different kind. I used to call it the dividing line between the quixotic and the mundane. The thin line that divides the two of you like the traditional divisions of two political parties. A social struggle .... but I couldn't put my finger on why I was so drawn to sit on the fence and look down at both sides and just marvel at the blind stupidity.

What led me to the mundane over the quixotic was the very real possibility that ultimately the mundane had, at least the semblance of recourse to the logical. If you could supersede the 'religious,' 'political,' 'social,' 'traditional,' 'moral,' and 'emotional' indoctrination of the struggle of the quixotic you would end up with nothing, but to do the same with the mundane would leave you with at least the tattered thread of 'logical application.'

So if we are going to talk about the Kingdom of God you need to do that. That would be cool.

You have to get rid of all of that crap and listen simply to what I say so that you can figure out more clearly what it is that we are talking about.

Rambo123UK wrote:

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OK.

So Jesus is a new shoot (netzer) of the tree. But he doesn't restore the kingdom. If his annointing (as king) by Magdalene was his coming into the kingdom, what has that to do with the mountain top (or reverse the question, if you like). If that was the coming of the kingdom of god then it has passed as Jesus died and there is again no king.

Good application of logic, Rambo, but you still cling to the crap.

You are having trouble with what the kingdom means. The kingdom of God was in an imperfect state with the Davidic, it was simply God's representation on earth. As Paul said the Law of Moses was a foreshadow of a more perfect law the same could be said of the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God consists of heaven and earth. What would it mean for Jesus to take the throne, to return? The Greek parousia which leterally means "being longside" and is used often in the Christian Greek scripture connected with the Messianic kingdom. Parousia is most accurately translated in context as "presence" which means that Christ wouldn't return in physical form on the earth, but would return his attention back to it at the appropriate time.

What Jesus taking the throne of Jehovah God's kingdom means is, among other things, "Woe to earth," for Satan the devil was cast down to earth from war in heaven, and has a short time to do his work.

Ultimately the Lord and King will completely destroy Satan, sin, death, and hell (the grave), but not until the completion.

Jesus was the shoot of Jessie, of the Davidic line, of kings, he does restore the kingdom. His annointing as king by Magdaline? C'mon Rambo! I mean really!