No one here cares about the Quran, moron.
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 Yark Hutprancer |
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Posts: 3697 04/10/08 13:03:51 |
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NannyG123 |
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Posts: 389 04/10/08 14:18:54 |
Yark Hutprancer wrote: Is that because you (collectively) are yellow-bellied? Anyone can come out with a Jesus in piss, an elephant-dung Mary, a gay Last Supper, transvestite ''nuns'' or whatever, knowing they are ''safe.'' But even quote the koran in a book or movie or in court, even call Mo what he really was: a liar, a thief, a pedophile, a rapist and a death fatwa can come down on your head. Heck, Canada's Ottowa Human Rights' Commission will even prosecute these "offenders" for muslims. The UN has made an international law against disparagement of Islam. And dhimmi status can be imposed on someone or self-imposed......like in your case. If you are a "skeptic" why limit your skepticism to kind believers? Why not be skeptical of the ones who will take your head off, rape your mate and raise your babies as their own? The best defense against islamization of the world is widely rebutting their main book, the koran. |
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Argy Lacedom |
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Posts: 2156 04/10/08 18:21:00 |
It's actually against disparagement of all religion. Although I believe it was sponsored by mainly Islamic groups. I think all religion should be called for what it is; superstition. And anyone making religious claims (like eternal damnation, resurrection, reincarnation, faith healing, etc.) should be forced to prove it before they are allowed to preach it. I also think teaching religion should be banned for children under the age of 18 - wait until they're old enough to make their own decisions. DO you agree??
"Faith is believing what you know isn't true" - Arthur C Clarke, 1997
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NannyG123 |
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Posts: 390 04/10/08 19:44:12 |
I think that in the 57 countries of the OIS you might be branded an apostate or blasphemer or heretic for talk like that.
Guess what they do to apostates, heretics and blasphemers?
The Muslim world has created a battle plan to defend its religion from political cartoonists and bigots. |
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Argy Lacedom |
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Posts: 2158 04/10/08 20:36:16 |
What's the OIS? Whatever it is my questions weren't directed to them, they were directed to you. 1) Don't you think it would be wise to wait until children are old enough to make decisions for themselves before introducing them to religion? 2) Don't you think religious organisations should be made to be accountable for the pronouncements they make?
"Faith is believing what you know isn't true" - Arthur C Clarke, 1997
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NannyG123 |
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Posts: 391 04/11/08 07:28:41 |
OIS is the Organization of Islamic States and wields the most power in the UN of any bloc.
I answered you question. I am not paternalistic towards other people's children like you are. Thus I am opposed to telling parents how to raise their own children, unlike you. Parents are given the responsibility to raise children and they (and their children) either suffer or are blessed by how wisely they carry that out. In this country church and state are separate. Who would you have form that oversight committee to hold religions accountable for their pronouncements without making them subject to the state? Muhammad Al-Munajid, who I quoted above, and most Islamic scholars, certainly wouldn't respect the oversight of what he openly calls every one else, Muslim or not, in the rest of the world: lowlifes, people who are a mixture of Western, local, and imported ideologies, ignorant people, fools, heretics, people who want to become apostates. Catholics have their Holy See, they wouldn't accept oversight from outsiders, either. The dali lama is here in the USA. He represents....what?...Buddhism? Some Buddhists, anyway. Does he even tell all Buddhists what to say or think? (I honestly have no idea) You need to think your idea through. Their is no controlling legal authority in the USA over all religions. There is freedom of/from religion. There is one controlling legal authority over religion in communist China....how's that working for the people....the slaves? |
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corwin17 |
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Posts: 1768 04/11/08 19:53:16 |
In this country church and state are separate.Are you ignorant or just self delusional? Just this last week, my own city had voted to cram religion down our throats by displaying our nation's motto, which in turn was crammed down out throat 50 years ago. Click here Also here's a list of other California cities that have done this, too: San Clemente Cypress Westminster Mission Viejo Tustin Artesia Hawthorne Carson Paso Robles Oceanside Victorville Compton Bakersfield There was a recent headline on Fox (since gone and I can't find it) that was "Democrats find Religion on Religion". What little I read of it was the fact the Democrats are taking after the Republican and wearing their religion on thier sleeve courting voters with promises of 'getting back to the moral founding of the country' {single quote because it's my paraphrasing of their statement}. Then there's the following from the past/present/future: - Moral Majority from the 80s - Family Research Council and its ilk - opposition to same sex marriage - abstinence only sex education Don't even get me started on the idiots on Kansas' Board of Education! All of these are examples of government forcing religion on us, organizations trying to get government to force religion on us, or government official using religion to get elected. It was disgusting the religious litmus test the public and media used on Mitt Romney over his Mormonism. But in my book, he shot himself in the foot when he came flat out and said "Good government requires religion." No, government doesn't require religion ... but getting elected does. :barf "Ah! Arrogance and stupidity all in one package. How efficient of you." -- Londo Mollari "Put your face in the book." -- G'kar If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll do it for you! ;) We now return you to your regularly scheduled dementia. |
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Argy Lacedom |
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Posts: 2159 04/11/08 20:35:07 |
What is wrong with giving children the opportunity to make up their own minds about which religion they will follow? Dawkins believes that foisting religion on minors is brainwashing - and I can't help but agree with him. What's wrong with making religions accountable for their claims? Why shouldn't they be forced to tell the truth and demonstrate their truths with evidence?
"Faith is believing what you know isn't true" - Arthur C Clarke, 1997
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NannyG123 |
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Posts: 396 04/13/08 09:47:57 |
Argy Lacedom wrote: Would you go into a capital of one of the Islamic countries and preach that idea? Or are you only interested in stopping Christianity? (I mean, Christians might want to raise their children in some faith but they rarely will murder that child for not choosing to follow it later in life.) It is so safe to stand in a free country and spout such liberal ideals. .
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(And, yes, I did confuse the two front organizations for an Islamic caliphate, one is the OIS and works independently, the other is the one that works
through the UN. One has 57 member nations while the other has 53)
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Argy Lacedom |
#10 | |||||||
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Posts: 2163 04/13/08 15:55:50 |
O don't care for any religion. I am interested only that children are not brainwashed. Let them be free of all religious teachings until they are able to make up their own minds. Boy, you have a distorted idea of Islam don't you? Have you ever been to a Muslim country? Have you seen first hand how they relate to their children?
"Faith is believing what you know isn't true" - Arthur C Clarke, 1997
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NannyG123 |
#11 | |||||||
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Posts: 419 04/20/08 12:25:36 |
Argy Lacedom wrote:Boy, you have a distorted idea of Islam don't you? Have you ever been to a Muslim country? Have you seen first hand how they relate to their children?I do know......do you? http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BEGGING_FOR_ISLAM?SITE=COBOU&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT Most of the boys - 90 percent, the study found - are sent out to beg under the cover of Islam, for among the cruelest facts of Coli's life is that he was not stolen from his family. He was brought to Dakar with their blessing to learn Islam's holy book. In the name of religion, Coli spent two hours a day memorizing verses from the Quran and over nine hours begging to pad the pockets of the man he called his teacher. It was getting dark. Coli had less than half the 72 cents he was told to bring back. He was afraid. He knew what happened to children who failed to meet their daily quotas. They were stripped and doused in cold water. The older boys picked them up like hammocks by their ankles and wrists. Then the teacher whipped them with an electrical cord until the cord ate their skin. There are 1.2 million Colis in the world today, children trafficked to work for the benefit of others. Those who lure them into servitude make $15 billion annually, according to the International Labor Organization. It's big business in Senegal. In the capital of Dakar alone, at least 7,600 child beggars work the streets, according to a study released in February by the ILO, the United Nations Children's Fund and the World Bank. The children collect an average of 300 African francs a day, just 72 cents, reaping their keepers $2 million a year. Boy flees Islamic school that makes beggars of African kids |
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curcat |
#12 | |||||||
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Posts: 113 04/13/08 05:12:35 |
Nanny,
You wrote to another poster: "...Thus I am opposed to telling parents how to raise their own children, unlike you. Parents are given the responsibility to raise children and they (and their children) either suffer or are blessed by how wisely they carry that out..." You initiated the thread by posting the article, relating to Quran 65:4, about the 8-year-old girl in Yemen who tried to divorce the husband she was coerced into marrying. I'm guessing you would not be opposed to telling the parent(s) of this girl how to raise their children? My view: There are times when the state needs to intervene, such as when laws are broken. Of course, the laws in this Yemen case are the problem--it should not be permitted for the child to get married. International pressure is needed against Yemen and other countries that allow this practice of men marrying (and then raping) child-brides. |
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NannyG123 |
#13 | |||||||
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Posts: 397 04/13/08 09:52:57 |
curcat wrote: Actually, curcat, both the Yemeni law and the koran were ignored in this case! The law of Yemen says a girl must be 15. In the koran a baby can be ''married," but only "thighed" until she is old enough to be "ready" for sex (in the koran that appears to be age 9.) So this girl was treated criminally both by Yemeni law being broken AND by the ideals of the koran that her husband wait until she was ''ready'' before having intercourse with her. (I put quotes around ''ready'' as that is an English translation for it and some muslims might quibble that there are nuances in Arabic that
allow wiggle room.)
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curcat |
#14 | |||||||
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Posts: 114 04/13/08 12:30:20 |
Nanny,
According to the article, as I understand it, the marriage was within Yemeni Law because the parents arranged it... "Shatha Ali Nasser confirmed that item number 15 in Yemeni civil law reads that "no girl or boy can get married before the age of 15." However, this item was amended in 1998 so parents could make a contract of marriage between their children even if they are under the age of 15. But the husband cannot be intimate with her until she is ready or mature," said Nasser.""
As you note correctly, the Quran doesn't give a lower
age limit for the marriageable age of girls. However, it does not directly give an age limit such as 9 years of age for (sexually) "consummating" the
marriage. As you probably know, the age of 9 is inferred from the Hadith, as a general guideline, because of Muhammad's consummation of his marriage to
Aisha. The guideline is reinforced indirectly due to Quran 33:21 and other verses that state or imply that Muhammad's conduct is exemplary, to be followed
by believers. Yet even 9 years of age is not a hard lower limit, because neither Muhammad nor the Quran forbids sex with younger girls. Indeed, either Umar or
Uthman--I can't recall which of those "rightly-guided" caliphs--married a four-year-old girl. Moreover, the Hadith state that
"enjoyment" of the "private parts" is part of the marriage contract. (Note the 8-year-old girl's statement in the article that she did
not know what marriage entailed). The only restrictions from the primary texts, as you note, are vague statements about whether or not the girl is
"ready" or, as a hadith puts it, can "take it." Regarding "thighing" and sexual acts with underage girls, some Islamic opinions
on this are quoted in Sam Shamoun's article
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NannyG123 |
#15 | |||||||
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Posts: 398 04/13/08 21:09:31 |
Thanks for all the details, curcat.
I had company this weekend, was kind of busy. |
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curcat |
Re: What's the OIS? | #16 | ||||||
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Posts: 112 04/13/08 04:43:27 |
Argy,
I think Nanny is intending to refer to the OIC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_the_Islamic_Conference). |
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Malkut |
#17 | |||||||
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Posts: 6818 04/11/08 14:36:52 |
NannyG123 wrote: Psh, the UN. Call me when someone important does so. Religion encysts past mythologies: guesses, hidden assumptions of trust in the universe, pronouncements made in search of personal power, all mingled with shreds of enlightenment. And always an unspoken commandment: Thou shalt not question! We break that commandment daily in the harnessing of human imagination to our deepest creativity. -Chapterhouse: Dune ***NOTE: All references to any God, gods, or other metaphysical concepts are hypothetical in nature and do not imply belief in said deities unless specifically indicated. These statements do not represent the opinion of the poster, his family, friends, other posters, EZboard, or the dark satanic masters that possess him and are secretly pulling his strings. All information copyright 2008 Big Faceless Corp. |
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