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Hi Beauty4Ashes,

You seem to be attempting to say something very important here I've seen you use the word "relationship" this way before. However, you are using it in a way that is unlike any other usage of the word. This means that although you know what you mean, I cannot get a handle on what you are saying. I would like to ask you, in the kindest possilbe way, to open up the meaning of what you are trying to explain, but to do it in a way that does not have anything confusing or mystical about it. I would like you to show what you mean, using words and phrases that are easily understood by everyone, without anything mystical, without anything poetic, without using ideas that are not graspable in normal, everyday english.

Can you do that please?

A relationship is something that happens between two people or two ideas, but the problem we have with this jesus-relationship is that there is only us, i.e. there is only one side there is only me. I can't see Jesus, I can't touch jesus, I can't hear jesus, I can't feel Jesus, I can't even imagine Jesus, because I have never met him. I'm not the type to belittle you for what you believe, but you are saying "relationship" like that explains it, but I have to tell you that it is not working as an explanation on it's own the word is just a riddle with no proper clues.

Can you put yourself in the shoes of someone who hasn't got a clue what you mean, and give some examples of how this relationship works, how you experience it, how you know it is happening, how you know it is working. In short, what is this relationship made of, what stuff, during your daily life, is the relationship?

Can you see why it is not meaning anything to me when you say that? Can you be clearer? Can you maybe use other words to help define what this relationship is?

For example, if I told you I had a relationship with my dead grandmother, wouldn't you want to know whether I could explain it more? Wouldn't you ask me if I could hear her voice or see her ghost, or whether strange coincidences happened when I thought about her? Is that what you mean you think of Jesus and then something happens in you life that seems unusual or out of the ordinary?

You can't have a one-sided relationship (that's not what the word means) so please, go through it step by step, tell me what you do for your side of the relationship, and tell me what Jesus does for his side of the relationship. Then I might be able to understand how you are using the word.

Best,
Gram

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I will do my very best to explain this to you, however I will say that you understand what I am saying, based on this:

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A relationship is something that happens between two people or two ideas

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The only way I can understand what you are saying is if Jesus is just an idea, then there is a relationship (of sorts) between you and your idea of Jesus.

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The difficulty you are having here is based on the fact that we can't see Jesus, therefore you see this as being "one-sided" at best, or in the way of 'imaginary friends' at worst.

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I think it is harder to understand than that not only can we not see Jesus, there doesnt seem to be any kind of interface between us and him you say it is prayer, but prayer appears one-sided, as far as anyone can tell me. Can I ask you again, please, to state very clearly what kind of things come back the other way what is an answer to prayer? Im not talking about how your regard it, how you imagine it, or what emotions it makes you feel Im asking to have the actual occurrence (which you obviously feel good about) laid out in plain words. What happens?

Imaginary friends is rather a harsh way of putting it, but what can you tell me about this experience (it is an experience, isnt it?) that will show me how it is different to an imaginary friend.

Revelation, you say. Id rather not talk about Yarks experiences, lets leave that to him. Im interested, sincerely, in your experiences. What did you experience. Describe it to me, recreate it with words, tell it like a passage from a novel: show me what happens to the character when revelation occurs. Tell me about their thoughts, what they see and feel, tell me how the world around them behaves during revelation, tell me about their heart-beat and their eyes blinking I want to understand what takes place during revelation. Tell me how it was for you.

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My responsibilities are to love God and love others, trust God with all my heart - even in difficult circumstances, and to become more like Him. His responsibilities to me are assurance of eternal life, the peace that Yark longed for but could not find, and the divine protection that keeps me from being tempted beyond what I can stand.

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At this stage I am not so interested in what the responsibilities are instead I want to be told about what manifests how reality is made different, not just what behaviours you perform. I know I am asking a lot, that it is a personal matter. I appreciate that you have tried, but your explanations keep falling just short of the mark.

You said you think I understand already because I said this:

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A relationship is something that happens between two people or two ideas.

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Can I be candid, and tell you that so far you have skirted around the edge, but you havent focussed on the important detail: a relationship is something that happens This is the part I dont understand what does happen, except that you think some thoughts and behave a little different. Thats your end of it make me a picture of the other half, if you will.

Im open to what you tell me, I promise not to descend into a slagging match and attack you point by point, yet still, the keystone of the arch is missing I am really hoping you will fill in the part you havent dared talk about yet, the personal part, the part about what occurs as you are relating to Jesus. Can you spell it out, write it down, in order, like: first I do this, then he does that, then I do this, then he responds by doing that?

So far, you have told me that you believe, and that you have feelings of love for him, but I cant get a hold of how this is anything but something inside you, at what point does it move beyond your mind and have reality outside of what you create with your mental behaviours?

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The relationship is based on Jesus' revelation to the Christian. Once He reveals Himself to you, you accept Him, then you proceed to getting to know Him.

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This seems to be the vital sentence, the pivot point, that keystone of which I spoke, and which I dont think you have illustrated yet (you have alluded to it, but not described it, you have said these cryptic things, but not exposed what you mean by it).

Revelation. What is revelation like. Try and help me here. If this was an English lesson, we wouldnt be allowed to say things like, revelation is lovely, revelation is nice, revelation is special. Instead we would need to try and make the reader experience, in their mind, what goes on during the occurrence if you had to put it in a story, how would you make the reader (me) re-live revelation?

Can you do that, or do you have to say that revelation is like nothing else, and there is no way to describe it, nothing you can say to even roughly sketch the experience? Ive not had it, you have, and never shall we meet in understanding until I do? But if I do, how will we know we are talking about the same thing, unless we can describe it to each other? It must be possible to describe it. I would love it if you would do me that service, I think it might be the best things someone could do for someone else.

I once knew someone who had Schizophrenia, which is a mental disorder (some people think it is the same as a split personality but that is a myth what actually happens is that the things a person imagines get mixed up, and they experience them as if they were happening). This person could actually feel people who werent there, she could hear messages from people, and when she acted on those messages, she saw coincidences happen that seemed to make the messages real her mind was able to see significance in events that most people thought were meaningless. She had feelings of amazing love for the people who she thought were real, and she did things to please them, and then had stuff happen that made her see proof that they were pleased.

Yet, she was ill. No one else could experience what she experienced. But despite that, she was able to clearly describe the things that happened to her. No one could see them happen, but she was able to say that they were happening in plain English. But no matter how much she believed, it had no effect on the real world. She had a relationship with her ideas, but it did not stop them being ideas.

Because I cared about her, and had to watch her go through all that, it makes it very hard for me to accept it when anyone talks about belief and ideas being real. Her "imaginary friends" could turn quite nasty, they became imaginary enemies, and then her fear was very real she became terrified. At other times she would think they were protecting her, and then a real peace and calm would come over her, and she would feel that nothing could go wrong.

I am scared when people talk about beliefs giving them peace if it has any substance, I want to be shown how it is different to my friends imagination, that seemed so real to her, but in fact was a sickness in her head.

So, when someone who is not ill, such as yourself, says that the things she does in her mind are in some way connected to things in the beyond, when there is all this talk of relating to what cant be seen, I want a report of what is happening, I want the substance of it, the nitty gritty, not vague notions of love and responsibility.

Please, I want someone to tell me, what is it you are relating to?

Kindest regards and greatest respect,
Gram