It's mighty imprudent 2 me 2 blame Matthew 4 others' scribal errors.
Thank you 4 ur kind greeting.
Dominus vobiscum
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KillerSkeptic |
Re: Mt. 1:25 and the Virginity of Mary | #1 | ||
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Original authors are one thing, intervening translators another.
It's mighty imprudent 2 me 2 blame Matthew 4 others' scribal errors. Thank you 4 ur kind greeting. Dominus vobiscum |
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Argy Lacedom |
Re: Mt. 1:25 and the Virginity of Mary | #2 | ||
Quote:Do you read Koine Greek? Quote:And the Force with you. ________________________________________________________________________
One man's theology is another man's belly laugh - Robert A. Heinlein When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said "Let us pray." We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land - Desmond Tutu |
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KillerSkeptic |
Re: Mt. 1:25 and the Virginity of Mary | #3 | ||
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I'll not lie, 2 u, Argy, i own no Koine lexicons, i do not read the entire dialect. However, when it is considered that it is an objective fact that both the New Testament (hereafter the NT) and the Septuagint version of the Old Testament were written in Koine, this becomes irrelevant. Do i have 2 be able 2 read the dialect in order 2 know that the NT was written in it?
Brush up on ur debating skills you must, Argy. |
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Argy Lacedom |
Re: Mt. 1:25 and the Virginity of Mary | #4 | ||
Quote:If you do not understand the language you are relying on third parties to tell you what it means. You are just as vulnerable to their misinterpretations and misconceptions as the people who translated the text wrongly in the first place. ________________________________________________________________________
One man's theology is another man's belly laugh - Robert A. Heinlein When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said "Let us pray." We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land - Desmond Tutu |
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KillerSkeptic |
Re: Mt. 1:25 and the Virginity of Mary | #5 | ||
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Well, Argy, misconceptions are quite another matter; 1 on which both u and i are in total agreement. I do know at least some root Koine words, such as the 1 cited above. The mere fact that i don't own any lexicons of Koine says nothing about the knowledge i DO have. And besides, my main point was not 2 prove the NT's truth, only 2 suggest that the NT writer would have understood something about the connotations of the word [i]heos[/i] that the average Bible reader probably would not 2day.
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Argy Lacedom |
Re: Mt. 1:25 and the Virginity of Mary | #6 | ||
Quote:You have proved nothing. Sure, they could have known what they were talking about, but if so they didn't express themselves unambiguously. And therefore, if the bible is supposed to be the word of god, God failed. ________________________________________________________________________
One man's theology is another man's belly laugh - Robert A. Heinlein When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said "Let us pray." We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land - Desmond Tutu |
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KillerSkeptic |
Re: Mt. 1:25 and the Virginity of Mary | #7 | ||
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Argy, let me tell u something about myself. I'm an agnostic, and probably will remain so until (modern sense) i die. At least 4 the most part, U and i will probably agree on a gr8 many things concerning faith (the above greetings r intended 2 be humorous). But, having been raised Catholic, and also having researched religion, theology, philosophy and history 4 almost a decade, i have heard the arguments of many Catholic/Orthodox apologists, and couldn't help but think that when looked at from the historical/theological/linguistic perspective, the arguments 4 Mary's perpetual virginity made sense (i refer here 2 the early church's belief in it rather than my own). Consider this: were u 2 write a book 2day, it would be intended 4 an English-speaking audience. However difficult translation efforts r, this would be much easier than it was 2,000 yrs. ago, yet at the same time very difficult 4 the translator 2day. However, in the 1st century, these concerns scarcely existed, as over half of the Mediterranean world spoke Koine. The community addressed in Matthew's Gospel and others who would circulate and read it could never have known that other cultural/ethnic groups would be reading it, much less that it would be considered inspired scripture a mere century afterward, and canonized as such only 2 centuries after even this (the 2nd century). If over half the world spoke English when ur book was published, would u worry very much about translation/exegetical issues?
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Keith and Company |
Re: Mt. 1:25 and the Virginity of Mary | #8 | ||
Quote:A lot of the apparent errors, contradictions, mistranslations, scientific failings, and anachronisms are easily explained if we figure that authorship The Books is limited to human beings with no better than human understanding, planning, enlightenment and travel. But for the most part, The Books isn't offered as 'something written a long time ago, with some interesting/cool/worthy things inside it.' IF it is the work of the Divine, then one can't just accept 'the author didn't know any better' as an apology for the Books' failings. |
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KillerSkeptic |
Re: Mt. 1:25 and the Virginity of Mary | #9 | ||
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We could if we understood that divine inspiration was limited only 2 what God wanted us 2 know about Himself, that the writers each had different writing styles/purposes, and that they were not always trying 2 write exact history; we must also factor in time, age and memory, and also truncation of events.
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Keith and Company |
Re: Mt. 1:25 and the Virginity of Mary | #10 | ||
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In that case, after factoring enough apologist factors for why the Books can have a divine inspiration, yet doesn't make sense today, we're left with a The Books that was aimed at, and only of use for, the population of the time it was published, and meaningless to us.
Either it was written with only local and contemporary knowledge, because that's all the author knew, or it was limited to local and contemporary knowledge because that's all the author wanted to convey. Neither one produces a book that's of any sort of special value to modern man. |
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KillerSkeptic |
Re: Mt. 1:25 and the Virginity of Mary | #11 | ||
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See, there u go. That's where we could potentially agree; never thought of that b4.
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