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gystex	Re: Matthew 26:52 - Put Away Thy Sword	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 265 06/10/06 16:55:10	*Quote:* When Jesus said in Matthew 10:34 that He came to bring not peace, but a sword, the sword is a metaphor for separation, not an emblem of armed conflict. How do you know this? Is there an earlier translation which makes this distinction clear, or is that simply the convenient way to interpret it in order to avoid an obvious contradiction? _____________________________ "We were once so close to heaven, Peter came out and gave us medals, proclaiming us the nicest of the damned." - They Might Be Giants
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snickers01	Re: Matthew 26:52 - Put Away Thy Sword	#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 25 12/08/06 19:13:46	[quote]Regarding Luke 22:36 -- Jesus is here arranging the fulfillment of a prophecy by making sure that the soldiers can keep His trial moving along by noting that His disciples resisted them with weapons -- thus getting Him classified with criminals, a la Isaiah 53:12, as cited in Luke 22:37. The simple act of brandishing the weapons was sufficient for this, however; when Peter actually used his sword he was going beyond what Jesus had instructed. [/quote] I'm sorry, but I don't really think it's fullfilling a prophesy to purposely try to fullfill it. What I mean is, if that prophesy were true, then it would have happened whether or not Jesus commanded his disciples to buy the swords. That's like a young person trying to prophesy that he will die on his 82nd birthday, and then, on his 82nd birthday, he goes out and buys a gun to shoot himself in the head to prove to people that he could predict the future. Nothing supernatural about it.
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Argy Lacedom	Re: Matthew 26:52 - Put Away Thy Sword	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3172 12/09/06 23:33:31	Prophesy is really a way for god to keep faith with his people. He makes a prophesy and keeps it. In this way he can be seen to be someone to be relied on, someone who has truly supernatural powers. A problem apologists have to deal with is the many unfilfilled prophesies that abound in the bible. The bible then innoculates itself against failed prophesy by claiming that there will be many false prophests and these are not on god's side. A circular argument if ever I heard one. I like to confront christians with all the unfulfilled messianic prophesies and then throw in the one where Jesus himself failed to live up to his prophesy that he would be entombed for three days and three nights just like Jonah (he was only in the tomb for about 36 hours). ________________________________________________________________________ Those who can induce you to believe in absurdities can convince you to commit attrocities.- Voltaire When I use a word, it means exactly what I want it to meannothing more and. nothing less. Humpty Dumpty (Alice in Wonderland) one of the world's greatest apologists.
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snickers01	Re: Matthew 26:52 - Put Away Thy Sword	#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 25 12/09/06 23:44:08	And if the prophesy should have been fullfilled by today but hasn't, many apologists say it's an "end of the world" prophesy. In other words, a cheap way for them to not ever be wrong. And I still stand by my reasoning that Jesus shouldn't have had to force situations to fullfill prophesy.
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1skybluepink	Re: Matthew 26:52 - Put Away Thy Sword	#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 842 12/10/06 06:50:20	Regarding Luke 22:36 -- Jesus is here arranging the fulfillment of a prophecy by making sure that the soldiers can keep His trial moving along by noting that His disciples resisted them with weapons -- thus getting Him classified with criminals, a la Isaiah 53:12, as cited in Luke 22:37. The simple act of brandishing the weapons was sufficient for this, however; when Peter actually used his sword he was going beyond what Jesus had instructed. That's one theory. I'd call it 'cheating' myself.
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I Newton	Clutching at straws	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1455 06/30/07 15:28:58	This is to answer the last 3 posts. Many of your problems with unfulfilled prophecies are that you simply do not understand them. Usually due to the problem of trying to fit religion into the Bible. And there is no need to get so upset with prophecies of the future. Like it or not the Bible is not just a book of the history of Gods people but of also the future. Stop getting so bogged down in pseudo-christianity and take the time to study the prophecies for yourself. You are carrying on just as bad as the religious nuts grasping at any possible proof to confirm your existing belief and all it does it just shows how desperate and illogical you are becoming. Atheism: A faith in existence of no God. Albert Einstein knew God created the universe but did not believe he concerned himself with our personal matters.
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I Newton	Death on 82nd birthday	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1455 06/30/07 15:16:42	You would be right if Jesus controlled the charges, but he did not. But in other cases he ran from trouble as he knew it was not time for him to be charged. He knew this was the time to be charged and knew it had to take place so did not try and escape. Jesus did not tell him to put his sword away simply because he had to be delivered up for trial but the sword is never to be taken up in any conflict. The soldier that was struck, may, at some time repent and follow Christ. It was different to the times when the Jews were God's people. Back then you were born a Jew, at Jesus' time, everyone could be a Jew if they just followed the teachings of Christ. So if one kills a person, even a strict and violent non-believer, that person may well have changed their stand in the future. Look at Paul; He even hunted the Christians thinking he was doing sacred service. Anyway, back on track. In regard to prophecy, God does not say he knows what the future will bring...he says I WILL CAUSE IT TO HAPPEN. So Jesus making sure it happens is exactly what is supposed to happen. When we try and interfere in a manner that goes against his plan, he makes sure we do not succeed. When we interfere in a way that fulfills his plan, he makes sure we succeed. Remember, he does not say he knows what will happen, he makes it happen. Atheism: A faith in existence of no God. Albert Einstein knew God created the universe but did not believe he concerned himself with our personal matters.
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Matthew 26:52 - Put Away Thy Sword	01/19/06 23:26:37	Waterrock
Re: Matthew 26:52 - Put Away Thy Sword	06/10/06 16:55:10	gystex
Re: Matthew 26:52 - Put Away Thy Sword	12/08/06 19:13:46	snickers01
Re: Matthew 26:52 - Put Away Thy Sword	12/09/06 23:33:31	Argy Lacedom
Re: Matthew 26:52 - Put Away Thy Sword	12/09/06 23:44:08	snickers01
Re: Matthew 26:52 - Put Away Thy Sword	12/10/06 06:50:20	1skybluepink
Clutching at straws	06/30/07 15:28:58	I Newton
Death on 82nd birthday	06/30/07 15:16:42	I Newton
Re: Matthew 26:52 - Put Away Thy Sword	12/18/06 23:25:16	Rev Etherman
Re: Matthew 26:52 - Put Away Thy Sword	10/15/07 19:49:40	Waterrock