Mt. 1:23 - Isaiah 7:14 and the Sign of Emmanuel - Prophecies, Promises, and Misquotes - All - The Skeptic's Annotated Bible Discussion Board - Message Board - Yuku

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Rev Etherman	Re: Mt. 1:23 - Isaiah 7:14 and the Sign of Emmanuel	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 401 04/22/06 20:49:40	*Quote:* So, Isaiah 7:14 is not the amazing prediction that some apologists have said it is. (Isaiah did, though, correctly predict that the child would be a male and that Israel and Syria would proceed to fall apart when the Assyrians attacked.) Actually there was a bit more to the prophecy than this. In your own words: *Quote:* Isaiah visited him and essentially told him not to worry -- both of the enemy nations would soon lose their momentum. Not to worry? What does the Bible have to say about what happened to Ahaz? 2 Chr 28:5 Wherefore the LORD his God delivered him [Ahaz] into the hand of the king of Syria; and they smote him, and carried away a great multitude of them captives, and brought them to Damascus. And he was also delivered into the hand of the king of Israel, who smote him with a great slaughter. If God wanted us to be Atheists we'd be born that way.
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Vampire LOGOS	Re: Mt. 1:23 - Isaiah 7:14 and the Sign of Emmanuel	#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3 03/21/07 09:06:19	Sorry, but this is a clear case of "Matthew" blowing it. Yes, it is clear that Mt. 1:23 is referring to Is 7:14, agreed. However, as Is 7:1 begins "in the days of Ahaz...". Emmanuel was to be born of either a virgin or a young woman as a sign to King Ahaz that when attacked by Syria and Israel, they would not be successful. Let's assume that Isaiah was right and that Emmanuel was born in the days of Ahaz to give this king a "sign". If "alma" means "virgin" then Emmanuel would have been born of a virgin more than 700 years prior to Jesus. Who would have been Emmanuel's father, 'god' perhaps? Bronze age son of 'god' & Messiah Emmanuel? If "alma" means "young girl" but not virgin, AND 7:14 is supposed to apply to Jesus, then this suggests that Jesus was not born of a virgin. 7:14 means what it means and was actually referring to Emmanuel born in the days of Ahaz and OBVIOUSLY has NOTHING to do with any alleged Iron Age born Jesus. Another point is that 2nd Cron 28 says that the sign of a born Emmanuel in the days of Ahaz is a false one anyway, since it describes how Ahaz lost his kingdom when attacked by these same nations with the same leaders mentioned. Why? Because when told he needs to ask for a sign by Isaiah, he said that he didn't want to "tempt the lord". This seems like an act of faith to me. But as 2nd Cron 28 explains it, YHWH became angry because Ahaz DIDN'T demand proof. (Quite the opposite of the position we are told today with 'no-show' 'god', isn't it?) Not only is the "prophesy" of 7:14 not about Jesus, it is also a proved false prophesy if one is to consider 2nd Chron 28 to be true. The Vampire LOGOS
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fearthemunky	Re: Mt. 1:23 - Isaiah 7:14 and the Sign of Emmanuel	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 36 05/02/07 22:23:21	The Hebrew word "almah", used in Is 7:14 most accurately refers to a woman of child-bearing age. She may or may not be a virgin. The actual word for virgin in Hebrew is "betullah", and this word is used later in Isiah and in other books. Of course, the Greek translators used "parthenos" in the Emmanual Passage, which refers to a virgin. Ergo, the writer(s) of Matthew, eager to tie Jesus into OT prophecy and always on the lookout for what they think are hidden meanings in the OT stories that related to Jesus, goofed on this one. It wasn't the only time. Just in the context of the story, king Ahaz is concerned about a potential attack from Syria and Israel. Isiah is telling Ahaz not to worry, because his prophecy predicts the fall of these two nations. Would it make any sense at all for Isiah to be telling Ahaz, "Don't worry, because in 700 years Jesus will be born"? Absolutely not. The Jesus tie-in makes no sense at all.
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Mt. 1:23 - Isaiah 7:14 and the Sign of Emmanuel	08/04/05 20:22:17	Waterrock
Re: Mt. 1:23 - Isaiah 7:14 and the Sign of Emmanuel	08/06/05 07:54:00	drseinfeld
Re: Mt. 1:23 - Isaiah 7:14 and the Sign of Emmanuel	08/31/05 20:27:47	Rev Etherman
Re: Mt. 1:23 - Isaiah 7:14 and the Sign of Emmanuel	12/02/05 23:08:35	zipkikr1966
Re: Mt. 1:23 - Isaiah 7:14 and the Sign of Emmanuel	01/26/06 17:13:58	Diskeyezed
Re: Mt. 1:23 - Isaiah 7:14 and the Sign of Emmanuel	04/22/06 20:49:40	Rev Etherman
Re: Mt. 1:23 - Isaiah 7:14 and the Sign of Emmanuel	03/21/07 09:06:19	Vampire LOGOS
Re: Mt. 1:23 - Isaiah 7:14 and the Sign of Emmanuel	05/02/07 22:23:21	fearthemunky