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RLWemm	Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6 07/28/07 23:48:15	This poses the further question of why a just god would create people who were not equally able to decipher his/her/its message or to agree on its meaning. There is strong evidence to support the notion that a proportion of the population is born with an inability to believe in the supernatural once they reached brain maturity. (I am a psychologist by training.) What kind of "loving" entity would punish beings whom s/he/it had designed to be incapable or the beliefs or behaviors necessary to avoid the punishment? Come to think of it, what place does "divine retribution" have in the concept of a just and loving entity? It reminds of me a child smashing his toy soldiers because he painted them the wrong color. This makes the god of Moses, Jesus and Mohammed out to be very immature at best, and heinously evil at worst. So, is the Christain/Jewish/Muslim god an entrenched juvenile delinquent?
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Yark Hutprancer	Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3770 07/29/07 11:24:52	*Quote:* So, is the Christain/Jewish/Muslim god an entrenched juvenile delinquent? He is a middle-eastern, human dictator circa 3000 BC. Then in the New Testament, he is a European religious leader circa 150 AD. One of the basic problems I have with Judeo-Christian belief is the idea that a perfect god would create imperfect children. Why would he do this? Why are we not as perfect as he is? Wouldn't we make better acquaintances for him rather than being a bunch of needy, sniveling groaners? If i could have my way, my children would become better than I am. I would want them to at least obtain the level of ability that I have. Why do I feel this way? Because I love them. I have never wanted LESS for them that I have ever had. Yet, the judeo-christian god created humanity imperfect, set guidelines for them to follow that he knew they were incapable of following, and then punishes them for it. It's insane. It would be no different than me requiring that my kids NEVER disobey me, and if they never disobey me, then they can go to school to become better. It just doesn't make any goddamned sense. And, why was humanity made by god in the first place? I am told so that god can have friends that interact with him. But the way the judeo-christian god does it is no different then if I deliberately handicap my kids so that they are forced to rely on me for the rest of their lives. This is a way to make friends? The whole story is ridiculous.
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1skybluepink	Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 836 08/06/07 16:53:01	"set guidelines for them to follow that he knew they were incapable of following" Yark, that is a far from universally accepted belief: it certainly is not mine. And one of my reasons for not believing so is that it is ridiculous. Just like the 'eternal punishment' stuff, it is ridiculous. What does happen after we die? I don't know and it doesn't matter: I'm here now, so I do the best I can manage.
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Yark Hutprancer	Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3770 08/06/07 18:26:56	*Quote:* the judeo-christian god created humanity imperfect, set guidelines for them to follow that he knew they were incapable of following
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1skybluepink	Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 836 08/07/07 13:21:58	LOL, no such critter as 'the judeo-christian god', except in the fond imaginations of some Christians. Not that He isn't the same ONE being....and the same as the Muslims call 'Allah' (and etc and so forth and so on): it's just that the vision of the ONE is different between even those two 'related' faiths. The OT and the NT are twe different works produced by two different cultures during two different periods of time. The presentation by Christians of the two as a 'whole' notwithstanding, the FACT is they are not a continuous nor 'seamless' unity. It almost doesn't matter that Jesus was evidently a practicing (Pharisaic) Jew: the Jewish tradition and connection rapidly recedes into the dim background in the NT, replaced by the 'grafted-in' Gentile traditions of the Greeks and Romans.
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littlewalker	Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 14 10/25/07 08:03:55	QUOTE: "If there's an afterlife with an afterjudge, we'll face him honestly. Then, either he's as loving as you hope, and we're okay, Or he's as penal as you warn, and we're screwed." Just because I think God is loving does not take away the fact that he is just. He flat out says in the bible that if you do not know him/believe in him on earth, he will not know you/acknowledge you in heaven. Yes, he's loving, but he's not just going to let everyone into heaven. We still have to believe. Jesus is still the only way.
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Keith and Company	Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3733 10/25/07 08:25:15	*Quote:* Just because I think God is loving does not take away the fact that he is just. Ookay. So, tell me. Is infinite punishment a just response to finite crime?
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Gramlins in the System	Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 864 10/25/07 08:56:19	*Quote:* He flat out says in the bible that if you do not know him/believe in him on earth, he will not know you/acknowledge you in heaven. How strange, that's exactly what my lord says too, he's called godA, and he told me in a letter that came to my house, as if by chance, one day. I can't show you the letter, because godA won't like that, but he also told me that you'll get a letter some day too. It might not be until near the time you die, but it will come. That is, unless you do something to upset godA, in which case he might not write a letter. I'm a bit worried though, if your lord is going around saying exactly the same thing about getting into heaven... woa, I'm confused. That means there's conflicting messages going around about what happens when we die. My oh my, what can that mean? Scratches head ______________________________ While I was sitting on the stair, I saw a man who wasn't there; he wasn't there again today, I really wish he'd go away.
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Do non-believers also live forever?	07/28/07 21:45:16	RLWemm
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	07/28/07 21:53:37	Yark Hutprancer
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	07/28/07 22:00:08	Malkut
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	07/28/07 22:14:47	Yark Hutprancer
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	07/28/07 22:19:59	Yark Hutprancer
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	07/28/07 22:30:27	RLWemm
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	07/28/07 22:55:31	Yark Hutprancer
Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	07/28/07 23:48:15	RLWemm
Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	07/29/07 11:24:52	Yark Hutprancer
Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	08/06/07 16:53:01	1skybluepink
Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	08/06/07 18:26:56	Yark Hutprancer
Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	08/07/07 13:21:58	1skybluepink
Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	10/25/07 08:03:55	littlewalker
Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	10/25/07 08:25:15	Keith and Company
Re: Divine punishment of the inherently flawed.	10/25/07 08:56:19	Gramlins in the System
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	10/25/07 08:58:32	littlewalker
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	07/29/07 11:40:15	David from Texas
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	08/07/07 13:28:50	1skybluepink
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	08/31/07 07:28:50	pbp720
BIASED QUESTION!	08/02/07 19:59:38	corwin17
Re: BIASED QUESTION!	08/31/07 07:37:18	pbp720
hell doesn't matter?	10/21/07 06:34:56	littlewalker
Re: hell doesn't matter?	10/21/07 06:50:00	Keith and Company
Re: hell doesn't matter?	10/21/07 07:17:15	littlewalker
Re: hell doesn't matter?	10/21/07 07:20:58	Hawker Hurricane
Re: hell doesn't matter?	10/21/07 08:28:55	Keith and Company
Re: hell doesn't matter?	10/21/07 18:27:43	1skybluepink
Re: hell doesn't matter?	10/22/07 04:57:03	Keith and Company
Re: hell doesn't matter?	10/22/07 20:04:00	corwin17
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	10/25/07 08:59:55	littlewalker
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	10/25/07 09:20:45	Keith and Company
You obviously subscribe to a strang definition of "Lovi	10/25/07 16:28:17	Old Possum
Re: You obviously subscribe to a strang definition of "	01/12/08 11:56:47	LivingGod
Re: You obviously subscribe to a strang definition of "	01/12/08 12:37:10	Hawker Hurricane
Re: You obviously subscribe to a strang definition of "	01/12/08 16:13:35	Argy Lacedom
The justice of savages.	01/12/08 21:35:36	Malkut
Re: The justice of savages.	01/15/08 20:59:19	LivingGod
Re: The justice of savages.	01/15/08 21:05:59	LivingGod
Re: The justice of savages.	01/15/08 22:18:42	Hawker Hurricane
Re: The justice of savages.	01/15/08 22:19:46	Keith and Company
Re: The justice of savages.	01/16/08 11:47:03	Yark Hutprancer
Re: The justice of savages.	01/16/08 04:17:56	Argy Lacedom
Re: The justice of savages.	01/15/08 22:16:02	Keith and Company
Re: The justice of savages.	01/16/08 14:13:39	Malkut
One simple question.	01/12/08 17:46:49	Malkut
Re: You obviously subscribe to a strang definition of "	01/12/08 18:34:33	Keith and Company
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	03/15/08 20:33:09	iamfound
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	03/16/08 04:07:30	Rambo123UK
Re: Do non-believers also live forever?	03/17/08 23:50:33	stimpyuidiot