Heaven = Hell ???

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corwin17	Heaven = Hell ???		Lead	[-]
Posts: 1798 06/08/08 21:01:16	Tags : None This may have been discussed in the past, but I honestly don' t remember it. After telling a co-worker of mine of the recent passing of our dog, they made the following statement: Well, he's now in heaven chasing cats and squirrels. It didn't come to me until just yesterday "Well, if that's heaven for Rocker, wouldn't that be hell for the cats and squirrels?" I mean if you think about the statement, for one creature to be in heaven to enjoy chasing the other creatures, the others would be in hell by being chased! Same goes for the "70 Virgin" bullshit ... he couldn't get one virgin in this life cuz they wouldn't put-out for him, but in heaven he gets 70. Whereas, because the virgins wouldn't put-out in this life, they spend eternity putting out in their hell. Same place ... different view points. Thoughts? "Ah! Arrogance and stupidity all in one package. How efficient of you." -- Londo Mollari "Put your face in the book." -- G'kar If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll do it for you! ;) We now return you to your regularly scheduled dementia.
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GreasusChrysler	Uh ... Corwin ... I Have A Thought.	#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 201 06/10/08 20:39:29	Heaven and hell is what you or any other idiot thinks it is? The answer is no. Heaven and Hell came from somewhere and so the real question becomes what is heaven and hell from where it originated? If they came from myth then what does myth say they are? If they came from some place else what does that other place say they are. You have to weigh the possibilities. The Bible, as an example, says that heaven was made for Jehovah God and the earth for man. Hell, it says, is something completely different than the mythology of the person who made the ridiculous statement about your dog's death and heaven ... I guess if you are going to ask questions like the one you asked you have to consider the options. The possibility that you asked a good question would indicate to me that you don't know the answer and certainly the possibility that you have already formed some opinion. None of it matters much, it is doom alone that counts. SAB Preface / What The Bible Says About ... Abortion / Amputation / Astrology / Believers / Birth Control / Blasphemy / Blind People / Pedophilia / *LISTEN! Ssshhhh!*
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Jenth101		#22	[url]	[-]
Posts: 62 06/11/08 02:49:07	Yeah, Argy, you're right about Catholics that's why they don't allow cremation. It must not have lodged itself firmly in my brain. Plausibility is not a substitute for evidence, however great may be the emotional wish to believe. - E. Bright Wilson Jr., An Introduction to Scientific Research
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GreasusChrysler	Nightmare On Elm Street	#23	[url]	[-]
Posts: 202 06/11/08 17:55:11	Jenth101 wrote: Reminds me of one of the old Twilight Zone shows. The one where a hillbilly dies trying to save his beloved hunting hound from drowning. The man and the dog in the afterlife come across the gates to hell first. The gatekeeper implies that it is heaven, but the dog is not allowed. The man refuses to enter without his dog because that wouldn't be heaven for him. I think it is so cute when the skeptics can't help but introduce Superman, Star Wars and The Twilight zone into the conversation at hand. I mean, you can't help but pity them, can you? Science fiction is as much an influence as Christian myth ... they never seem to figure it out, though. Hmmm. SAB Preface / What The Bible Says About ... Abortion / Amputation / Astrology / Believers / Birth Control / Blasphemy / Blind People / Pedophilia / *LISTEN! Ssshhhh!*
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corwin17	influence != belief	#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1807 06/11/08 18:03:17	What's your point? Or are you claiming Jenth101 worships Twilight Zone? "Ah! Arrogance and stupidity all in one package. How efficient of you." -- Londo Mollari "Put your face in the book." -- G'kar If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll do it for you! ;) We now return you to your regularly scheduled dementia.
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corwin17	Next time you have a thought ...	#25	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1808 06/11/08 18:04:21	... just flush it. "Ah! Arrogance and stupidity all in one package. How efficient of you." -- Londo Mollari "Put your face in the book." -- G'kar If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll do it for you! ;) We now return you to your regularly scheduled dementia.
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GreasusChrysler		#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 203 06/11/08 18:04:26	WordClock wrote: Do dogs go to heaven? No. SAB Preface / What The Bible Says About ... Abortion / Amputation / Astrology / Believers / Birth Control / Blasphemy / Blind People / Pedophilia / *LISTEN! Ssshhhh!*
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GreasusChrysler	Maybe We Should Play Nice?	#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 204 06/11/08 18:14:29	corwin17 wrote: I don't believe in the myth. It doesn't really matter if you believe in the myth or not, does it, you pretentious prick. You are controlled by it in a way that even smug ignorance can't deny. If you think that you are beyond that then shut up and move peaceably on. Otherwise you are wasting any ones time who wants to seriously discuss the reality of the possibility of the myth or the reality. You fucking git that? Greasus [ Looks around at vacant faces waiting for some stupid smart ass smug remark to defend their own skeptic tank ... ] Oh ... sorry. You were right, carry on and say something particularly clever sounding to make you feel good about being completely ignorant about the myth which you devote so much time to fear. Now that would be an original response I have never seen on message boards like this. The next time I have a thought, you ignorant prick, I will flush it. Because I know you wouldn't know what to do with it. Or maybe we should play nice ... You heard somebody make a stupid remark about heaven and you couldn't come up with anything else to say? Thats about it, smart ass. Your move. SAB Preface / What The Bible Says About ... Abortion / Amputation / Astrology / Believers / Birth Control / Blasphemy / Blind People / Pedophilia / *LISTEN! Ssshhhh!* Last Edited By: GreasusChrysler 06/11/08 18:25:41. Edited 1 time.
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Matthew Ellard.pedg		#28	[url]	[-]
Posts: 143 06/11/08 18:26:16	GreasusChrysler wrote: Heaven and hell is what you or any other idiot thinks it is? The answer is no. Heaven and Hell came from somewhere and so the real question becomes what is heaven and hell from where it originated? If they came from myth then what does myth say they are? If they came from some place else what does that other place say they are. You have to weigh the possibilities. The Bible, as an example, says that heaven was made for Jehovah God and the earth for man. Hell, it says, is something completely different than the mythology of the person who made the ridiculous statement about your dog's death and heaven ... I guess if you are going to ask questions like the one you asked you have to consider the options. The possibility that you asked a good question would indicate to me that you don't know the answer and certainly the possibility that you have already formed some opinion. None of it matters much, it is doom alone that counts. I think you have missed the point. Most of the postings on this subject have been concerned with logical arguments concerning any form of heaven, either myth or real. If heaven is meant to be a 100% perfect existance then a man should be there with his dog. If dogs dont go to heaven than it cannot be 100% perfect existance for that man. If Heaven is not 100% perfect then what is it supposed to be using logic? If a theist is not allowed to ask these questions "because of their faith" then skeptics simply make assumptions based on the general material issued by theists. I do not understand the "doom" reference. Human population is increasing, we are living longer, we have a better quality of living, we are starting to leave the planet, most of us have legal rights, we can prevent floods, starvation, disease and so on.......where is the impending "doom"?
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GreasusChrysler	Ah ... The Voice Of Reason!	#29	[url]	[-]
Posts: 205 06/11/08 19:02:08	Greasus - Heaven and hell is what you or any other idiot thinks it is? The answer is no. Heaven and Hell came from somewhere and so the real question becomes what is heaven and hell from where it originated? If they came from myth then what does myth say they are? If they came from some place else what does that other place say they are. You have to weigh the possibilities. The Bible, as an example, says that heaven was made for Jehovah God and the earth for man. Hell, it says, is something completely different than the mythology of the person who made the ridiculous statement about your dog's death and heaven ... I guess if you are going to ask questions like the one you asked you have to consider the options. The possibility that you asked a good question would indicate to me that you don't know the answer and certainly the possibility that you have already formed some opinion. None of it matters much, it is doom alone that counts. Matthew - I think you have missed the point. Greasus - Well that is certainly possible. Matthew - Most of the postings on this subject have been concerned with logical arguments concerning any form of heaven, either myth or real. Greasus - Are you serious? Are you serious? I had to ask twice. Sorry. If that were the case Matthew, I would have picked up on it. I would like to say, arguably, I would have something to say about that other than just calling you all idiots. I think, Matthew, that you overestimate your colleuges. It is about making fun. Nothing more and nothing less. You and me as well. But Matt ... [sighs] I sigh, not Matt ... there is nothing here. But me and you. Matthew - If heaven is meant to be a 100% perfect existance then a man should be there with his dog. If dogs dont go to heaven than it cannot be 100% perfect existance for that man. Greasus - Are you talking about the Twilight Zone? You see ... there really is no question about what myth says heaven is. It isn't what you make it. That was my original point to Corwin who is an idiot. Don't be like that. The real point for people like you and me is that you can't ascribe what heaven is supposed to be like, otherwise it wouldn't be heaven, would it? But. You might say. It could be myth! But. I say. Myth is what you imagine, as far as heaven goes, isn't it? Otherwise our traditions and customes would have come up with something more potent than Jed Clampet and his hound or the Civil War or Darth Vadar? YES! You would say, and it has! YES! I would say, and what more? You are not really here to discuss the traditional, cultural, political and religious ramifications of mythology are you Matt? Or are you just bored? I'm bored. Are you bored? Well ... we will sort it out I am almost sure. I trust that you have the intellectual capacity to understand such a simple thing. And please, Matthew, my shinning armor of at least some semblance of logic. Don't ever say that I missed the point. Unless I had, in fact missed it. Especially ... and this is the interesting bit ... especially if THERE WASN"T A FUCKING POINT IN THE FIRST PLACE! Matthew - If Heaven is not 100% perfect then what is it supposed to be using logic? If a theist is not allowed to ask these questions "because of their faith" then skeptics simply make assumptions based on the general material issued by theists. Greasus - Oh, bullshit. What do you think the point of the skeptic should be, if not to ask questions?! If the skeptic can't come up with anything better than that then you ought to just piss off and you know it. Don't overintellectualize pure bullshit, Ocham. Skeptics make assumtions on nothing more than the ignorance of the faithful. If you could come up with something better you would have. But you havn't. And I am not talking about myth. That has to be taken into consideration. Don't bullshit me. I would like to think we are both better than that. I missed the point? Let me know when you actually do come up with the point. Perforate it put it on a roll. Fucking kids. Look at my Signature .... Matthew - I do not understand the "doom" reference. Human population is increasing, we are living longer, we have a better quality of living, we are starting to leave the planet, most of us have legal rights, we can prevent floods, starvation, disease and so on.......where is the impending "doom"? Greasus - Bless your heart. The doom reference was from Bob Dylan's "Shelter From The Storm" You keep looking to how mankind is destroying himself and the one eyed undertaker who blows a futile horn will give you ... shelter from the storm. Count on it. SAB Preface / What The Bible Says About ... Abortion / Amputation / Astrology / Believers / Birth Control / Blasphemy / Blind People / Pedophilia / *LISTEN! Ssshhhh!* Last Edited By: GreasusChrysler 06/11/08 19:16:04. Edited 1 time.
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GreasusChrysler		#30	[url]	[-]
Posts: 206 06/11/08 19:44:30	corwin17 wrote: What's your point? Or are you claiming Jenth101 worships Twilight Zone? No, Corwin ... I am claiming that, like Twilight Zone and other works of SCIENCE *FICTION* i.e. viz or vix, Douglas Adams, George Lucas, resembles Jesus Christ more than Charles Darwin. That is your burdan not mine. Does Jenth worship Twilight Zone. Zeneth is a school teacher. A professional babysiter. We will decide what Jenth can and con not worship, won't we? Because, Corwin. Idiot. That is what WE do. SAB Preface / What The Bible Says About ... Abortion / Amputation / Astrology / Believers / Birth Control / Blasphemy / Blind People / Pedophilia / *LISTEN! Ssshhhh!*
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Matthew Ellard.pedg		#31	[url]	[-]
Posts: 146 06/11/08 19:53:31	Matthew - Most of the postings on this subject have been concerned with logical arguments concerning any form of heaven, either myth or real. Greasus - Are you serious? Are you serious? I had to ask twice. Sorry. If that were the case Matthew, I would have picked up on it. I would like to say, arguably, It is about making fun. I agree that some of the arguments posted are mixed in with insults. This is poor behaviour. Matthew - If heaven is meant to be a 100% perfect existance then a man should be there with his dog. If dogs dont go to heaven than it cannot be 100% perfect existance for that man. Greasus - there really is no question about what myth says heaven is. It isn't what you make it. OK. Here is a fixed question. Am I meant to be 100% happy in heaven according to the myth? Greasus: You are not really here to discuss the traditional, cultural, political and religious ramifications of mythology are you Matt? or are you just bored? Nope. I studied anthropological pre-history at Sydney Uni to get my paws on early hominid remains. I studied organic chemistry to understand the role of small particle physics in evolution and my main hobby is late republic Roman history so I could understand the origins of Roman cults like christianity through to the Edict of Milan in 310AD. Boredom was never an issue. Fear of being wrong about the non-existance of god was. Matthew - If Heaven is not 100% perfect then what is it supposed to be using logic? If a theist is not allowed to ask these questions "because of their faith" then skeptics simply make assumptions based on the general material issued by theists. Greasus - Oh, bullshit. What do you think the point of the skeptic should be, if not to ask questions?! If the skeptic can't come up with anything better than that then you ought to just piss off and you know it. Don't overintellectualize pure bullshit, Ocham. Skeptics make assumtions on nothing more than the ignorance of the faithful. If you could come up with something better you would have. But you havn't. And I am not talking about myth. That has to be taken into consideration. I clearly defined a premise. "Heaven is meant to be 100% happy" I then argued why this could not be true if dogs are not allowed. This ended the premise. The rebutal argument is "No, Heaven is not meant to be 100% happy" or "You can be happy without your dog in heaven" Wordclock uses rebutal techniques on me so I have to go away and think. That's the whole point of this forum...more thinking...
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GreasusChrysler		#32	[url]	[-]
Posts: 207 06/11/08 20:35:28	Matthew - I agree that some of the arguments posted are mixed in with insults. This is poor behaviour. Greasus - Don't underestimate the value of personal insults. Don't define what is poor behaviour without recognizing the pretense that supersedes it. Don't marvel at warriors of words and die by the poison pen while demanding that I not insult you. Don't think that if we subscribe to political correctness we have gained any real measure of anything other than myth in the making. DON'T BULLSHIT ME. Matthew - OK. Here is a fixed question. Am I meant to be 100% happy in heaven according to the myth? Not just the myth that you create or adopt, but the reality. Therein lies the dilema. You have to look at the 'myth' as well as the 'reality' from the same point of observation. You see, it is all about belief. And disceminating those beliefs. You can't come at it from the angle of one or the other. Uh ... let me put it to you in a way you can't understand, just for fun. If you find a monkey's skull in the sand you can make up all kinds of shit in the name of Science and I - if I were as dumb as you - couldn't do the same in the name of god which is only the other side of the same coin. Matthew - Nope. I studied anthropological pre-history at Sydney Uni to get my paws on early hominid remains. I studied organic chemistry to understand the role of small particle physics in evolution and my main hobby is late republic Roman history so I could understand the origins of Roman cults like christianity through to the Edict of Milan in 310AD. Boredom was never an issue. Fear of being wrong about the non-existance of god was. You said all of that followed by the denial that boredom wasn't an issue? You must think the sun shines out your ass. I can relate. Shut up. Fear of being wrong about the existance of god never entered into it. We were talking about how to be fair and open minded about the myth and the possible realities of heaven and hell and what that means. Why would you bring up your education (propaganda on paper)? AND tie it all up with your own fear of the existance of god? Because you were fucked in the mind by some pompous priest? Can't we assume the possibility of the same with your education or are you twice bitten and once shy? Why do you even carry on as if you had a thought? Because you can? Well ... that is the point. Matthew - I clearly defined a premise. "Heaven is meant to be 100% happy" I then argued why this could not be true if dogs are not allowed. This ended the premise. The rebutal argument is "No, Heaven is not meant to be 100% happy" or "You can be happy without your dog in heaven" Wordclock uses rebutal techniques on me so I have to go away and think. That's the whole point of this forum...more thinking... Your premise is based upon fallacy and presumptuousness. You can think a great deal upon that, but Wordclock has no more clue than you and this forum has no more point than your own obtuse absence of thought. Heaven wasn't meant for man. Or dog. Heaven wasn't created to absolve the desires of man. Even the myth dictates this obvious fact. Think. Fuck. SAB Preface / What The Bible Says About ... Abortion / Amputation / Astrology / Believers / Birth Control / Blasphemy / Blind People / Pedophilia / *LISTEN! Ssshhhh!*
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GreasusChrysler	Flush The Thought	#33	[url]	[-]
Posts: 208 06/11/08 20:47:26	corwin17 wrote: ... just flush it. Oh! Just flush a thought? Why didn't I think of that? Oh, you are so ... smart. No wonder you are so capable. Just flush it, huh? Right. If only I were the hypocritical ignoramous that your stupid ass THOUGHT I was. Man ... that would be odd, wouldn't it? These people are so fucking stupid. Its just ... its a joke. SAB Preface / What The Bible Says About ... Abortion / Amputation / Astrology / Believers / Birth Control / Blasphemy / Blind People / Pedophilia / *LISTEN! Ssshhhh!* Last Edited By: GreasusChrysler 06/11/08 20:53:37. Edited 1 time.
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corwin17		#34	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1809 06/11/08 22:52:36	No, Corwin ... I am claiming that, like Twilight Zone and other works of SCIENCE FICTION i.e. viz or vix, Douglas Adams, George Lucas, resembles Jesus Christ more than Charles Darwin. eh? So, because Douglas Adams and George Lucas wrote fiction that people like, they "resemble" Jesus Christ more than Charles Darwin who wrote about true science? Do you lump in Isaac Asimov, Arthur C. Clark, JK Rowling, AC Crispin, Anne Rice, John Grishim, et al, into that same group that resembles Jesus because they also write/wrote popular fiction? That is your burdan not mine. I suppose it is a "burdan" [sic] trying to figure our your delusional comparisons. Other than that, I have no idea what you are considering a "burdan" [sic]. Does Jenth worship Twilight Zone. Zeneth is a school teacher. A professional babysiter. We will decide what Jenth can and con not worship, won't we? Because, Corwin. Idiot. That is what WE do. Don't lump me into your fantasies of trying to control what people can and "con not" [sic] worship, buddy boy. I don't care what people worship as long as (a) it only effects themselves, (b) they don't force it on me, and (c) they don't try and make me worship. I would prefer it, though, that people didn't allow superstition to influence their decision making. "Ah! Arrogance and stupidity all in one package. How efficient of you." -- Londo Mollari "Put your face in the book." -- G'kar If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll do it for you! ;) We now return you to your regularly scheduled dementia.
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corwin17	Do you know how to? Didn't think so.	#35	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1810 06/11/08 23:14:41	Hey, jack-hole. Go back to the TLP and read it again. Here, let me summarize ... A premise was presented in the form of a statement made by someone else: "Well, [my dog is] now in heaven chasing cats and squirrels." I then asked a question (in short) "if the dog is in heaven, are the cats and squirrels in the same place, but for them it's hell?" When someone responds "Do dogs go to heaven?" it is an irrelevant question to the topic at hand, no matter how you look at it! It was stated in the premise, it was stated in the question. Period. I even admit my statement that I don't believe in the myth was irrelevant to my TLP, but was a response to the responder. It does not negate the fact that the responders question was irrelevant. This thread isn't about whether or not the myth is or isn't. It is about exploring the duality that the myth may be the same place; both good and bad. If you want to actually discuss that, great! Otherwise, all your bullshit is just troll spam. "Ah! Arrogance and stupidity all in one package. How efficient of you." -- Londo Mollari "Put your face in the book." -- G'kar If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll do it for you! ;) We now return you to your regularly scheduled dementia. Last Edited By: corwin17 06/11/08 23:26:11. Edited 1 time.
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corwin17		#36	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1811 06/11/08 23:23:00	I suggest you give up trying to reason. I think I will after tonight. Just imagine this guy on a street corner with a bell and a sandwich board saying "Repent! The end is near!" "Ah! Arrogance and stupidity all in one package. How efficient of you." -- Londo Mollari "Put your face in the book." -- G'kar If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll do it for you! ;) We now return you to your regularly scheduled dementia.
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Matthew Ellard.pedg		#37	[url]	[-]
Posts: 149 06/11/08 23:30:07	Matthew - I agree that some of the arguments posted are mixed in with insults. This is poor behaviour. Greasus - Don't underestimate the value of personal insults. Don't define what is poor behaviour without recognizing the pretense that supersedes it. Don't marvel at warriors of words and die by the poison pen while demanding that I not insult you. Don't think that if we subscribe to political correctness we have gained any real measure of anything other than myth in the making. DON'T BULLSHIT ME. I now realise that you are not well in the head. I agreed with you that "insults were poor behaviour" so you went off on a tangent and concluded I was bullshitting you. What other possible reply could have satisfied you? Matthew - OK. Here is a fixed question. Am I meant to be 100% happy in heaven according to the myth? Creasus Not just the myth that you create or adopt, but the reality. Therein lies the dilema. You have to look at the 'myth' as well as the 'reality' from the same point of observation. You see, it is all about belief. And disceminating those beliefs. You can't come at it from the angle of one or the other. Uh ... let me put it to you in a way you can't understand, just for fun. If you find a monkey's skull in the sand you can make up all kinds of shit in the name of Science and I - if I were as dumb as you - couldn't do the same in the name of god which is only the other side of the same coin. You are a theist and you are too frightened about the "holes in your beliefs" to write a simple yes or no. It is obvious that Christians believe that heaven is meant to be 100% perfect. Also, please do not compare your intelligence to mine. Words should speak for themselves. Matthew - Nope. I studied anthropological pre-history at Sydney Uni to get my paws on early hominid remains. I studied organic chemistry to understand the role of small particle physics in evolution and my main hobby is late republic Roman history so I could understand the origins of Roman cults like christianity through to the Edict of Milan in 310AD. Boredom was never an issue. Fear of being wrong about the non-existance of god was. Creasus You said all of that followed by the denial that boredom wasn't an issue? You must think the sun shines out your ass. I can relate. Shut up. Why would you bring up your education (propaganda on paper) AND tie it all up with your own fear of the existance of god? Because you were fucked in the mind by some pompous priest? Can't we assume the possibility of the same with your education or are you twice bitten and once shy? I supplied my education to you as you asked if I read about evolution and religion because you thought I was "bored". In fact, I was taking the steps to prove to myself that god was not real because I take the issue seriously. This is called personal interest. I grew up in a socialist country without religion and so I was not molested by a priest or suffered any indoctrination as per your suggestion. Matthew - I clearly defined a premise. "Heaven is meant to be 100% happy" I then argued why this could not be true if dogs are not allowed. This ended the premise. The rebutal argument is "No, Heaven is not meant to be 100% happy" or "You can be happy without your dog in heaven" Wordclock uses rebutal techniques on me so I have to go away and think. That's the whole point of this forum...more thinking... Creasus: Your premise is based upon fallacy and presumptuousness. You can think a great deal upon that, but Wordclock has no more clue than you and . Heaven wasn't meant for man. Or dog. Heaven wasn't created to absolve the desires of man. Even the myth dictates this obvious fact. Think. Fuck. Thank you for your opinion about my skills in logical deduction. I can tell from the way your words "waft" that you have not taken your lithium, nor did your education include logical constructs, oratory or rhetoric. Thank you for your final conclusive opinion "Heaven wasn't meant for man" or dog based on the voices you must hear in your head. You will probably not enjoy the real world's future where natural mechanisms like evolution and physics works its happy little way in the complete absence of any god, tooth fairy or your wafting posts. I understand the "doom" you perceive as your theist world is exposed as a hilarious fairy tale promoted by Romans to control populations. You say you hate this forum.....As we say in Australia....."There's the front door mate"......
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